VW servicing

[Maverick]

I have trouble getting genuine sparkplugs at any price.

What's the brand of the current genuine VW plugs?

[Greg Roles]

What's the brand of the current genuine VW plugs?

The fish are biting tonight!! EDIT : It's a diesel thing Mav..

[Maverick]

The fish are biting tonight!!

You know what I mean, if you buy plugs through VW what brands are they normally supplying! I assume Bosch.

[WEDEL.1]

I think we paid aroung $90 for the plugs in our very standard 1.4L auto, from an independant VW servicer.

Maris

[mikinoz]

Can we leave the thread for the OP to post up his outcome, and start a spark plug discussion? May be useful so we can collate what brands/prices are out there for future reference.

[cathmic]

Bosch were the original supplier of spark plugs for the FSI/TFSI and AFAIK still are.



The GTI is what? 2l FSI. And that's the pricing that I supplied. Notice the quantity of four plugs?



You're confused.

We use RON (Research Octane Number) and the USA and Canada use a average of RON and MON (Motor Octane Number). MON measures fuel in a more realistic manner and thus gets a rating that is 8-10 points lower.

87 US is equivalent to our 91
91 US is equivalent to our 95
93 US is equivalent to our 98

And the spark plugs "may" be different but the part numbers are a starting point and you can check European sites to confirm.



And check the price of the car, it's USD21K for a GTI. Again completely irrelevant because our taxes are different, we have a lower population and so forth which makes it generally more expensive to buy anything in this country that is imported and anything we make here is generally more expensive.

Smaller market = more expensive prices



Responded to above.

If Bosch were original supplier and still are why is it that NGK were fitted to the car originally and the replacement spark plugs from Volkswagen are rebranded NGK Plugs with the NGK part number on.
2 I stated that the USA GTI was a TURBO 2.0l FSI
3 The MK5 Rabbit/Golf is a 2.5lt 5 cylinder motor. Seems strange to sell the americans a similar car with marginly less power with a different motor if the fuel is the same!
All the fuel stations that I used in Califonia,Arizon & Nevada had the fuel stated in RON
You wouldn't happen to be a Dealer would you?

[Maverick]

If Bosch were original supplier and still are why is it that NGK were fitted to the car originally and the replacement spark plugs from Volkswagen are rebranded NGK Plugs with the NGK part number on.

Who cares, VW change suppliers at different times but their main supplier is Bosch. My point was that you didn't need to buy plugs from VW in order to purchase plugs yourself, you can go to the website of the manufacturers and do a search or jump onto google and find out.

The MK5 Rabbit/Golf is a 2.5lt 5 cylinder motor. Seems strange to sell the americans a similar car with marginly less power with a different motor if the fuel is the same!
All the fuel stations that I used in Califonia,Arizon & Nevada had the fuel stated in RON

Your credibility has taken a nose dive. It would take you 20 seconds to check for yourself before responding. It's well known what the USA has different measurements for fuel.

The 2.5litre puts out 170hp(125kw) and 177lb/gt(240nm) on standard fuel
The 2.0litre FSI (fitted to Golf in Australia and that required premium fuel) puts out 110kw and 200nm

As you can see the 2.5 litre running on standard fuel is pretty close to the 2.0 litre here running on premium 98! To simplify this
2.0 litre puts out 27.5kw/cylinder and 50nm/cylinder
2.5 litre puts out 25kw/cylinder and 48nm/cylinder

If the 2.5 was run on premium it would be delivering MORE power.

You wouldn't happen to be a Dealer would you?

Why because I questioned your spark plug pricing?

[cathmic]

Who cares, VW change suppliers at different times but their main supplier is Bosch. My point was that you didn't need to buy plugs from VW in order to purchase plugs yourself, you can go to the website of the manufacturers and do a search or jump onto google and find out.



Your credibility has taken a nose dive. It would take you 20 seconds to check for yourself before responding. It's well known what the USA has different measurements for fuel.

The 2.5litre puts out 170hp(125kw) and 177lb/gt(240nm) on standard fuel
The 2.0litre FSI (fitted to Golf in Australia and that required premium fuel) puts out 110kw and 200nm

As you can see the 2.5 litre running on standard fuel is pretty close to the 2.0 litre here running on premium 98! To simplify this
2.0 litre puts out 27.5kw/cylinder and 50nm/cylinder
2.5 litre puts out 25kw/cylinder and 48nm/cylinder

If the 2.5 was run on premium it would be delivering MORE power.



Why because I questioned your spark plug pricing?

Talk about credibility taken a nose dive
First you state BOSCH are Volkswagens spark plug supplier when they are not for the 2.0lt FSI motor!
Second as stated in numerous motoring authority magazines that if cars are not designed to run on high octane fuel the benifit in doing so is marginal and a waste of money. (Hence I question why the Americans got the 2.5lt 5 cylinder to run on lower octane fuel but deliver similar perfomance. Your not suggesting we in Australia have been duded by forking up for higher octane more expensive fuel to acheive similar perfomance)
If what you say is true about Australia/Europe measurement of fuel rating to USA fuel rating is true a stand corrected. (How well known that fact is known I will let others decide)
The point YOU seem to miss (THAT I WILL LET OTHERS DECIDE) is the servicing & parts prices from the dealers tends to be overpriced when you compare the alternatives and the impression that they take advantage of this to guarantee that new/extended warranty.

[Maverick]

Talk about credibility taken a nose dive
First you state BOSCH are Volkswagens spark plug supplier when they are not for the 2.0lt FSI motor!

Clearly the link I provided show that they do supply them, VW often use a number of suppliers for consumables like spark plugs, brake pads and tyres. Their major tyre supplier is continental but they also supply Dunlops on some models as well as a few other brands.

Do some research and you'll find that Bosch were the original supplier and NGK didn't have a suitable plug until later on.

Second as stated in numerous motoring authority magazines that if cars are not designed to run on high octane fuel the benifit in doing so is marginal and a waste of money. (Hence I question why the Americans got the 2.5lt 5 cylinder to run on lower octane fuel but deliver similar perfomance. Your not suggesting we in Australia have been duded by forking up for higher octane more expensive fuel to acheive similar perfomance)

The figures I provided showed less performance on standard fuel and the engine would be comparable or slight higher performing on premium. They are different engines for different markets.

If what you say is true about Australia/Europe measurement of fuel rating to USA fuel rating is true a stand corrected. (How well known that fact is known I will let others decide)

It would take you 20 seconds to find out the answer.

The point YOU seem to miss (THAT I WILL LET OTHERS DECIDE) is the servicing & parts prices from the dealers tends to be overpriced when you compare the alternatives and the impression that they take advantage of this to guarantee that new/extended warranty.

And the example you used to demonstrate this was flawed as the spark plugs are the same price from the dealer as they would be from any other service center or by buying them through a place like autobarn. And seeing as spark plugs and a few other consumables are about all you can purchase elsewhere there is not much of a saving to be made across the life of the car.

One of the few worthwhile items to source from elsewhere would be discs and brake pads of you wanted better performing ones.

[Orville]

Do it yourself 2.0 TDI Mk5

Gday all,
I looked into the repair dramas and costs and yes its expensive.
So I do the basic maintenance myself - just did an engine oil and filter change, a fuel filter change, rotated the tyres and renewed the brake fluid (32,000 ks young but its an 05 Golf 2.0 TDI). All easy and no special tools or dramas. I reckon I saved about 500 dollars. Give it go people - its not too hard.

The car is going great and its good to know I can do it and that it was actually done.

ps - the Sutho VW people and mechanics are lovelly people - open and informative and happy to assist with tech stuff and helpful tips - unlike the north shore snooties - who just said - "don't try it mate - too difficult, just bring it in to us".

cheers
orville

[cathmic]

Orville
I totally agree that the repair/maintenence cost are expensive and I would say overpriced.
If you go back over this post that other person/dealer who keeps replying seems to make one statement and then conteract it with another.
If you are able search overseas for consumables and you will save enough to make it worthwhile. (I did and have)
That other person should run for politics!

[Maverick]

Orville
I totally agree that the repair/maintenence cost are expensive and I would say overpriced.
If you go back over this post that other person/dealer who keeps replying seems to make one statement and then conteract it with another.
If you are able search overseas for consumables and you will save enough to make it worthwhile. (I did and have)
That other person should run for politics!

If you're going to try and make a personal attack at least base it on facts.

Did you forget all your claims?

Untill recently Bosch did not have an alternative to the Platinum NGK for the 2.0lt FSI motor.

Bosch were the original supplier.

Secondly the Mk 5 Rabbit (Golf) in America is a 5 cylinder 2.5lt and the fuel the America starts at 87Ron and goes to a Max of 92Ron (Not the 98 Ron fuel for the 2.0lt FSI sent to Australia ,UK & Europe) Even the Mk 5 GTI with has to run on Max 92 Ron in California which has a turbo 2.0lt FSI motor would be tuned different to the ones sent to Australia & UK so hence I would not be using American Part Numbers for the spark plugs here.

As I pointed out fuel between Australia and the US is pretty close in power output but the measurements are different (similar to miles vs kph or hp vs kw).

You also claimed that VW were ripping you off on spark plugs but the same plugs from an automotive supplier in Australia is the same price as VW, sure you may have brought some over the internet from the UK for cheaper but how do you know they're not fakes. Even the spark plug manufacturer has a heap of information on how to spot counterfeit plugs on their website because the problem is so widespread. Is that $60-70 saving going to look so crash how when a plug snaps off or fails and it's your responsibility because you supplied them to the dealer?

Perhaps you should have picked a cheaper car like a Hyundai with it's cheaper servicing?

[cathmic]

If you're going to try and make a personal attack at least base it on facts.

Did you forget all your claims?



Bosch were the original supplier.



As I pointed out fuel between Australia and the US is pretty close in power output but the measurements are different (similar to miles vs kph or hp vs kw).

You also claimed that VW were ripping you off on spark plugs but the same plugs from an automotive supplier in Australia is the same price as VW, sure you may have brought some over the internet from the UK for cheaper but how do you know they're not fakes. Even the spark plug manufacturer has a heap of information on how to spot counterfeit plugs on their website because the problem is so widespread. Is that $60-70 saving going to look so crash how when a plug snaps off or fails and it's your responsibility because you supplied them to the dealer?

Perhaps you should have picked a cheaper car like a Hyundai with it's cheaper servicing?

My 2004 Golf originally had fitted VW/NGK platnium plugs!
After they were replaced and when I was able to check the Bosch Site they had listed a part number and then when checked with agent was told "OEM"
and go to DEALER. It was not untill sometime after NOVEMBER / DECEMBER 2008 that they became available after I had purchased the NGK plugs from overseas. I can assure you that if Bosch were available I would have purchaced them as I have used them on all motor vehicles I have owned in the last 30 years. (SO MUCH FOR BEING ORIGINAL SUPPLIER!)
So yes at the time to have the local market having to pay over $120.00 for 4 plugs and to get the same NGK plus sent from overseas identical to those that were replaced except for the VW Logo for less than half the price delivered I would say somebody is taking advantage of that situation. So much for living up to what the name "Volkswagen" means

After all we are going to have to agree to disagree and dealers will always try and justify there pricing. Whether that is value for money as I said before I will let others decide.

[cathmic]

To those that are interested for spark plugs to Golf 2.0 fsi :-
The Bosch plug FR7 HPP 332 W (As listed in Bosch 2008 Catalogue) $11.04each retail in Perth (Double Platinum)
The VW/NGK Plug PZFR5N-11T $48.80 each retail VW Dealer in Perth (Platinum)
Hope this helps those who need them.
Wish they were available when my were changed!

[banger2]

next part....

Hi All!
WOW! Slow down Mav! Your response to my post seems like I upset you, or personally offended you...

Maybe I can explain or clear up my comments, it seems they were misunderstood!

On service cost...I said I was "a little surprised"...that didn't mean holy crap what a rip off, thats ridiculous...it meant I was a little surprised...I certainly didn't think I moaned and complained about it nor said i was unhappy about it(thanks Tick )...I even complimented the Dealership for their friendly service.

What I was unhappy about is the resulting leaking of important fluids after the turbo has been done (and the fluids continue to leak, however the service team has advised me as long as I keep an eye on the levels, it is OK to drive until the upcoming booking...just in case you are wondering). I don't consider this normal at all, and I don't consider it an unrealistic or high expectation that the car not have further faults after another fault being attended to, and the whine still exists! I have a basic understanding of car mechanicals, no I don't have the skills to diagnose the fault. Consider an average motorist doesn't have much knowledge at all about coolant and oil changes and their function or importance, doesn't notice said leaks...either fluid expires...what is then the consequences from a "very minor leak" as you put it Mav? Im taking you to mean minor as in importance, not size...have I misunderstood you there? The leaks occurred right after the turbo service and the leaks fall from the general location location of the turbo...so I am sure the turbo service is the cause, disagree with my "diagnosis" if you like...From my experience with 2 previous turbo cars, and my limited knowledge, I didn't believe the whining problem to be the turbo. Whether I guessed my way (so to speak) to that conclusion or not is now irrelevant as the whine still exists with some extra issues!

Trust with someone who provides services is very important. As many people do, my family and I rely on my car. I am very happy to pay what I consider a small higher premium for excellent service I can trust for servicing and repairing. Having another fault resulting from a repair diminishes my confidence and trust in this dealer, and therefore I question the value of what they provide. Exploring other options of value after this event I'm sure everyone can understand that! And by explaining my situation, I was asking for some opinions on servicing the vehicle outside a regular dealer...

The boot...firstly they never offered to do it under factory warranty and I never claimed in my post I expected them to! I do however, have the same warranty VW sell as their factory extension, from Allianz. I noted the cost of "warranty repairs"..this means if its under warranty they pay, else I pay...simple. If they determined it was not the camera that caused the fault Allianz would have paid "under warranty", however disconnecting the camera (by a simplistic way of sniping the wires) subsequently has shown the fault still exists. In the upcoming booking I will let them determine if the camera caused the fault or not and accept their determination. I do have some formal electronic/electrics training and I have my doubt the camera caused the fault. The camera had been installed for several months prior to the fault with normal boot operation. Please understand, "I have my doubt" does not mean the dealer is wrong and I am right full stop, just incase you misunderstand my wording!

I have enjoyed understanding your points of view, and trying to explain mine...hope it made more sense the second time around.

A massage with the service...what a great idea now thats good value!

I did note the spark plugs on the 60k to be a reasonably large component of the service cost (relatively). I just accepted that the cost may be cheaper elsewhere, however if I trust the dealer and they do a good job in my opinion, that forms good value for me even if it costs a bit more, as other have said. I also consider my loyalty to the dealer MAY gain me favour in marginal warranty/non warranty claims.

The next booking is for this coming Friday 19th...Ill let you all know the result.

cyas
ashley