hard starting tdi today......

[85turbo]

hi everyone.

i had a strange thing happen today, and i want to ask if anyone has ideas as to the cause.

Scenario.

this afternoon, i went to do some shopping. left the partner in the car and went into the shop.
i was away for no more than 10 mins. when i got back, the park lights were on, and the car would not start.

normally it starts first crank, every time. this time however it just cranked over.
not even attempting to start. it did this 3 or 4 times before it finally started.
at each attempt to start, when i let go of the key, the wipers did one sweep of the screen. very strange.

when i parked the car, i turned the engine off as per usual, but did not remove the key. i wonder if this had any impact ?

once it did start, there was nothing out of the ordinary, and it started again perfectly normally for the rest of the day.

anyone here have any ideas on whet might have been the cause ?
i hope this is not the start of some larger problem.....

Jason.

[maca]

Do you remember if it was dark enough for the headlights to come on? If the headlights are on (automatically) and you leave the key in the ignition after you turn the car of, the park lights stay on. Don't know why this is but surely it wasn't enough to drain your battery..

[85turbo]

it was not the battery. it cranked over very easily.
the auto lights had been on, but i would have thought that they should have turned off after the normal delay ?

maybe they stayed on, as i didn't remove the key ?
but, that should not have had any bearing on the starting issue.

either way, it was definitely not a flat battery issue. plenty of cranking grunt.
it just would not start.

Jason.

[maca]

it was not the battery. it cranked over very easily.
the auto lights had been on, but i would have thought that they should have turned off after the normal delay ?

maybe they stayed on, as i didn't remove the key ?
but, that should not have had any bearing on the starting issue.

either way, it was definitely not a flat battery issue. plenty of cranking grunt.
it just would not start.

Jason.

The Park lights stay on even of the auto delay is up when you leave the key in.. That's really bizarre though. Not sure of the anti-theft systems these cars have but my old Mk4 would cut out the fuel pump.. Perhaps the immobiliser tripped out and kicked in?

[85turbo]

i suppose it could be the immobiliser.
but the key was in the ignition all the time i was gone.

maybe the immobiliser got confused by the key not being removed.
i dunno.

Jason.

[Tim]

did it start after taking the key out and then putting it back in again? or just start out of the blue?

[85turbo]

i don't remember removing and re inserting the key, but in my frustration, i may have.
if it happens again, i will try removing the key before trying to re start the engine.

[Mrk_Mickey]

That problem screamed fuel to me but seeing as it's so new and has only happened once it's gotta be something like the immobilizer...can anyone confirm any functions that would make this happen?

[85turbo]

yeah, personally im leaning towards an immobiliser issue of some kind.

i have only owned the car for about a month, but in that time it has been faultless.
here's hoping it's a one off.
i have a 3 year 60k warranty from the dealer with it, and 3 years premium roadside assistance too, im hoping i never need to use either.

Jason.

[Maverick]

yeah, personally im leaning towards an immobiliser issue of some kind.

i have only owned the car for about a month, but in that time it has been faultless.
here's hoping it's a one off.
i have a 3 year 60k warranty from the dealer with it, and 3 years premium roadside assistance too, im hoping i never need to use either.

Jason.

It's not the immobiliser, there's a RFID chip in the end of the keyfob and this is read when it's in the ignition. If for some reason it can't read the RFID chip the car will start for a few seconds and then display either a symbol for those without the full height MFD or a message about the immobiliser in the full height MFD.

Check the battery, if it's the original battery then it's due for replacement and leaving the key in the ignition left enough powered up to drain it that it wouldn't start straight away.

[85turbo]

Maverick,

the RFID chip inside the key does not require any power.
i have had both my keys apart, and the RFID chip has no connection to the battery at all.
it's the same technology that's used in the ID chips you have put in your pets.

the battery is only for the remote lock / unlock and hatch release.
both have fresh batteries in them, i replaced them when i renewed the key fob cases.

is it possible that the immobiliser for some reason did not like the key being left in the ignition for 10 mins ?
i did turn the ignition off, just didn't remove the key.

as i said, it's only happened this once, hope it does not re occur.

Jason.

[maca]

is it possible that the immobiliser for some reason did not like the key being left in the ignition for 10 mins ?
i did turn the ignition off, just didn't remove the key.

Could be aye, it only happend once on my Mk4 (the fuel pump cut out).. That was when I use to leave the key in the ignition when parked in the garage.

[Maverick]

Maverick,

the RFID chip inside the key does not require any power.
i have had both my keys apart, and the RFID chip has no connection to the battery at all.
it's the same technology that's used in the ID chips you have put in your pets.

the battery is only for the remote lock / unlock and hatch release.
both have fresh batteries in them, i replaced them when i renewed the key fob cases.

is it possible that the immobiliser for some reason did not like the key being left in the ignition for 10 mins ?
i did turn the ignition off, just didn't remove the key.

as i said, it's only happened this once, hope it does not re occur.

Jason.

I never said the RFID chip did require a battery, the RFID chip is energized by a coil around the barrel.

The car battery could be on it's way out, especially if it's more then 3 years old.

[gregozedobe]

As maverick said it is unlikely to be the immobiliser (if there is an immobilser problem the car cranks, starts normally, then cuts out after 2 secs with an immobiliser symbol/msg).

As it was cranking OK but had the wiper doing a single wipe I would be leaning towards some kind of electronic glitch stopping the fuel supply. If you have access to vagcom/VCDS it might be worth checking for error codes in the ECU (or ask your service people to have a look at your next service).

[85turbo]

im leaning towards a glitch of some kind, or the immobiliser.
but as mentioned, the engine would not start at all. it did crank normally though, so that kind of rules out the immobiliser i guess....

as for looking for error codes, i don't have access to VCDS (yet) so i might have to pay a visit to the local VW dealer i guess....

it does seem strange that the wipers were doing the single sweep though.
for now, ill hope it does not happen again. if it does, ill have to investigate further.

i have plans to purchase the cable and software license from ross-tech as soon as i can afford it.

Jason.