Help: Golf GTI with 16" wheels?

[Unbelievable]

Hi all

I've lurked this list since December when I bought my first VW: a beautiful Golf GTI 5 door. (Graphite blue, grey leather inside if you are curious - I'll post pics in the newbie thread later).

I need some help here - and sorry for the urgency, but I think I need it today. Any sensible (or funny) suggestions are very welcome.

Now last week I damaged one of the front tyres (a Continental Sport Contact 2) on a stupidly designed speed bump and when I went to the tyre place to get a replacement the guy talked me into a strange conversion.

I mentioned that I quite often drive on dirt roads (say twice a month) and he said that basically any 225/45R17 tyre is going to be pretty crap on dirt, and also prone to similar damage if I hit a rock or something. He recommended that I change over to some VW 16" wheels (which he happened to have) and get a 205/55R16 tyre as a) it will grip better on dirt because it's narrower, and b) the higher sidewalls make it less prone to damage, and c) replacement tyres will be cheaper, and d) it will give better fuel economy.

So what do you reckon?

Do you drive your GTI on dirt roads (not offroad!) much? Does it grip Ok? Does it trash the tyres?

Does anyone else have 16" wheels on their GTI? How does it affect the handling?

The reason for the urgency is that I actually bought the 16" wheels but now I think I did the wrong thing and I think I want to go back and beg for my money back.


Very grateful for any advice.

Thanks.

[RhysQ]

I really don't think 45 profile tyres are going to have any issues on dirt road, especially being a 225 width. With that width, there is plenty of give in the sidewalls for sudden bumps and rocks. If you hit a large rock (depending on the size), even 55 profile tyres will split a sidewall so there is nothing you can do in the Golf to completely avoid that. I have 17" wheels on 40 profile tyres and drive on dirt roads a bit for my work, have never EVER had an issue.

More importantly though, you will completely destroy the appearnce of your GTI. It will just look odd.

If I were you, I'd be getting my money back on the 16's.

Cheers,
Rhys

[VW Convert]

I guess it depends on how much dirt road driving you do and the state of those dirt roads. I've done a bit in the Jetta with 225/45/17s and not experienced a problem. I suppose in theory the 55 profiles may be more suited in the dirt but I'm not convinced this is the right thing to do.

I'm with Rhys, about appearance and I'm sure it will affect resale value when the time comes.


Cheers

George

[Greg Roles]

For the 95% of the time on normal bitumen roads, the extra rubber of the 16" is going to make it handle a lot worse around corners, but it would most certainly give a more comfortable ride. You could always put some secondhand rubber on them, try it, and flog them off on e-bay if it doesn't suit, but I personally wouldn't be putting new rubber on them.

[philthy]

Continental sport contact 2's have very soft sidewalls (i damaged 3 of the stupid things on my polo on potholes). Change to a different tyre and you'll be fine. I'm sure there's people on here with Golf's who can recommend a tyre.

Cheers,

-Phil

[Unbelievable]

Continental sport contact 2's have very soft sidewalls (i damaged 3 of the stupid things on my polo on potholes). Change to a different tyre and you'll be fine. I'm sure there's people on here with Golf's who can recommend a tyre.

That's great info thanks Phil.

Does anyone else have a suggestion for a stronger tyre than the Conti??

[RhysQ]

That's great info thanks Phil.

Does anyone else have a suggestion for a stronger tyre than the Conti??

Pretty much anything available on the market! The Conti's are known for blowing sidewalls.

I'd be looking at some Michelin Preceda PP2's or Dunlop SP Sport Maxx, they seem to be pretty popular and are a really top quality tyre at a good price. I have Marangoni Zeta Linea's which are awesome but unsure whether they make them in 225/45 R17 (mine are 205/40 R17).

[brad]

if 16" rims & 205/55x16 aren't listed on your tyre placard (inside the fuel cap) then the conversion is more trouble than it's worth a you'll need approval for rego & approval from your insurer as well.

subaru liberties have been running 215/45x17s for years and plenty of them see dirt road use.

Have a talk to a few other tyre people - you need to look at how many plys the sidewalls have & the load rating. I'm sure that somebody will have a suitable solution that doesn't require a change back to "Skoda Octavia rims" & all the associated regulatory problems.

At a guess Bridgestone RE001 (or falken FK452 + a few others) will be somewhere close to what you need.

edit: marangoni mythos come in the right size & have an extremely strong sidewall. A mate uses them on his Focus turbo and does 50,000km a year all over NSW - he likes the twisties & tends to take secondary roads everywhere which = potholes. I'm sure they'd be up to the task.

[WhiteRabbit]

Side Walls on the Conti's are crap, I punctured one 2 weeks after I got the car.

I am going for Pirelli tyres next time, premimum tyres at half of the price of the contis

You Could consider run flat tyres which would be stronger, but less comfortable

[KWICKS]

Un do the deal, STAT!

[Maverick]

It's all very well to recommend tyres based on personal experience but without there being any way to compare them it really is just personal opinion and everyone has different ways of measuring how a tyre performs.

The best way to purchase tyres is to look at reviews where the tyres have been tested under controlled conditions as it's the only way to properly compare them.

The CSC2's and CSC3's are both excellent tyres and I haven't seen any complaints about sidewall damage and it comes highly recommended on most reviews generally in the top 3.

The Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric blitzed all the rest in a number of recent reviews. The best one was the EVO review which is 10 page review conducted on a purpose built track and they tested 10 tyres on a GTI.

If anyone want's this PM me your email address and I'll email you a copy of the review (~7mb).

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2007-evo-tyre-test.htm

1) Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
2) Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta
3) Continental Contisport Contact 3
4) Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A
5) Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
6) Pirelli PZero Nero
7) Kumho Ecsta STP KU31
Dunlop Sport Maxx
9) Yokohama S.Drive

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2007-autocar-tyre-test.htm

1) Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
2) Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
3) Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A
4) Continental Contisport Contact 3
5) Pirelli PZero Nero / Rosso

[SoVeReIgN]

You didn't give him your originals did you??

[smoothcall]

I'd certainly try to undo the deal.

Not sure I'd bother changing brands until you see evidence of the dirt roads causing any problems.

My CS2s have lasted 47k with still a bit of tread to go.

Good point from Brad re the Liberty their even narrower sidewall.

[gregozedobe]

A lot depends on your what you mean by "dirt" driving. If it is a short distance on smooth dirt roads (not much in the way of rocks over 50mm in diameter) then a change of brand in tyre is probably all you need. If it is a long drive on a truly rough dirt track then maybe a GTI isn't the right vehicle for that sort of driving ?

If you are only driving on dirt twice a month then changing to a different size wheel and tyre sounds a bit like over-kill to me. Also a bit of sensible driving technique can make a big difference. First and foremost - drive slower, especially if the road is a bit rough in patches, also pick your line to avoid obvious rocks and pot holes.

As Brad said, if the 16" wheels aren't legal for your GTI then just don't do it.

If you do decide to ask for your money back then be aware that "I've changed my mind" isn't sufficient reason for the tyre place to agree to give your money back, but "These wheels aren't legal on my car" sounds like a pretty convincing argument to me.

In general, low profile tyres (ie less than 55% aspect ratio) are less suited to dirt roads than higher profile tyres. This is because low profile tyres have less distance between the tread and the rim to absorb the impact from lumps (rocks) and sharp edges (potholes). The tradeoff is that low profile tyres tend to be more responsive on smooth bitumen (again because of the shorter sidewall, therefore less flex). Hence off-road 4WDs have very high profile tyres, while sporty road cars have very low profile tyres.

As you have found, the sidewalls on some brands of tyres are less robust than others as well.

Without knowing anything about your "dirt" driving, I tend to agree with everyone else that a different brand of tyres on your std rims is probably the best compromise, along with a change of driving style where appropriate.

[brad]

It's all very well to recommend tyres based on personal experience but without there being any way to compare them it really is just personal opinion and everyone has different ways of measuring how a tyre performs.

The best way to purchase tyres is to look at reviews where the tyres have been tested under controlled conditions as it's the only way to properly compare them.

The CSC2's and CSC3's are both excellent tyres and I haven't seen any complaints about sidewall damage and it comes highly recommended on most reviews generally in the top 3.

But AFAIK, there aren't any tyre tests that belt the tyres into potholes, speedhumps or run on dirt roads. Infact, the conditions that most tests are conducted under (racetracks or skidpans) are so controlled that it bares only the slightest resemblance to how/where most of us use/drive our vehicles.

I agree that controls are required for testing purposes but in this case, the OP hasn't asked about grip, wear, wet or dry braking, etc and has a specific issue with driving on unmade or secondary roads & damaging the tyre. The tests really don't cover that, do they?

In some ways you contradict yourself as you recomend looking at the tests and then immediately introduce your personal, non-tested, anecdotal experience regarding sidewall damage (just like the rest of us).


One thing that I haven't noticed anyone asking the OP.

What tyre pressures are you running? As this will have an impact on the resiliance orf the tyre sidewall.