If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed, registering will remove the in post advertisements. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
This means you should apply for your renewal now to avoid any disruptions to your membership whilst the renewal process is taking place! NOTE: If you have an auto renewing subscription this will happen automatically.
If people think dyno figures can't be compared, how on earth will you get any agreement about lap times at a track ?
Dyno figures can be used if they're at the same Dyno on the same day with the same operator and the same strap down tension with the same tyre pressures.
It won't answer the handling issue but it will resolve the power one.
this is a discussion about modifications and how people can view their changes through rose coloured glasses
Rose coloured glasses in the world according to you maybe After all, you are always right!
Hey, I changed my mind by the way. I do enjoy reading your comments (as i'm sure many others do). Someone has to set us disillusioned types right and give us diatribe to chuckle at
P.S. I agree with you on how dyno figures can change dramitically depending on different variables. OMG, I just agreed with you on something!!!!
Well I believe there's enough of us out there with Vag com, so why don't we all use that as our standard? Saves a lot of arguing, and gives us a much more comparable standard. Not perfect, but better than this thread has demonstrated??
And hey, I'm sorry for my part in this topic really straying off course, even I'm feeling guilty...
2014 Skoda Yeti TDI Outdoor 4x4 | Audi Q3 CFGC repower | Darkside tune and Race Cams | Darkside dump pDPF | Wagner Comp IC | Snow Water Meth | Bilstein B6 H&R springs | Rays Homura 2x7 18 x 8" 255 Potenza Sports | Golf R subframe | Superpro sways and bushings | 034 engine mounts | MK6 GTI brakes |
I do know that MRX in the chipped / eibach'd skoda wagon eclipsed me by a significant margin, despite having to put the power down later. With one long straight and a few higher speed sections, it made sense. Painful, small-man-syndrome ego-bruising sense.
Just to stay off topic for one more post:
I have to admit I was surprised by the outcome of that day too - I expected to get blitzed by you. Are you sure you weren't in Winter mode?!
Sorry, couldn't resist - sounds like I've gone into wanker mode, better snap out of it now.
Dyno figures can be used if they're at the same Dyno on the same day with the same operator and the same strap down tension with the same tyre pressures.
There must be some basic conversions to compare the figures for different temperatures etc? If you can't compare dyno's it's uselss posting them for expected performance gains?
Dyno figures on any good roller or hub dyno are temperature compensated so that they can be compared. I dyno'd my subaru on several hub and roller dyno's and always got similar figures within 5kw.
If dyno's are all so variable then why do people ALL around the world keep getting a power figure at the engine of about 135-140kw for GT TSI's.
My iphone Dynolicious which relies on the iphones very sensitive G sensors and has been shown to be within 1/10th of actual qtr mile time at drags - says 143kw@ engine.
Here is a swedish test of GT and GTI on same day same dyno.
Again 140kw.
Here is a GT with suspension work doing Nordschleife time of 9:10....
Anyway I am sure mav will just reply after each line and say the opposite. Dyno's dont work, Iphone doesnt work, Nobody can ever rely on any measurements because they are all different etc etc.
*Disclaimer - Don't rely on me, seek your own professional advice. Audi R8 E-tron. 230kw 4500nm! (not a typo).
Economy at 100kph =5.5L
Don't you want to beat your chest and boast about your $10,000 watch when you say that?
If dyno's are all so variable then why do people ALL around the world keep getting a power figure at the engine of about 135-140kw for GT TSI's.
The Dyno is a TUNING tool and is not a MEASUREMENT tool.
You can claim all you like that VW put an extra 15kw in the GT TSI and only an extra 3kw in the GTI but it doesn't make it so.
My iphone Dynolicious which relies on the iphones very sensitive G sensors and has been shown to be within 1/10th of actual qtr mile time at drags - says 143kw@ engine.
Dynolicious is easy to manipulate, put in an incorrect weight and you will get a higher power figure. If the calibration of the accelerometer is not done exactly correctly or at a different temperature it will give misleading figures.
Compare this to the G-Tech which has accelerometers that are robotically calibrated and temperature compensated and can be used to compare one car to the other.
But let's not let science get in the way will we
Here is a swedish test of GT and GTI on same day same dyno.
Again 140kw.
And this means what exactly? Where are the specs on the cars? You don't know what mods have been made or anything.
Anyway I am sure mav will just reply after each line and say the opposite. Dyno's dont work, Iphone doesnt work, Nobody can ever rely on any measurements because they are all different etc etc.
Polar you can say whatever you want but at the end of the day Dyno's are not accurate for comparison unless they are done at the same place with the same operator as the figures can vary substantially. The iphone isn't that accurate and can be easily manipulated. For whatever reason you feel the need to justify the bastardilsation of your car with some figures that are clearly incorrect. Even Tinto and MrX have questioned them and some of your statements.
By removing parts of your car and changing your suspension you haven't created a car that will beat a stock GTI, far from it. The GT TSI is a great car in itself but it's not in the same league as the GTI, and just like the GT TDI they all have difference markets.
Mav, if Dynos are so inaccurate, how do the manufacturers get the power for their own engines in the first place...By plucking the answers out of the air like you do??
"If can't get behind your troops, feel free to stand in front of them..."
"Dyno is not a measurement tool"! LoL thats a good one Maverick.
How could it help in tuning if it wasn't measuring things? That is all it does! It torque and calculates hp and plots other inputs on the chart like Air fuel ratios.
"A dynamometer or "dyno" for short, is a machine used to measure torque and rotational speed (rpm) from which power produced by an engine, motor or other rotating prime mover can be calculated.
A dynamometer can also be used to determine the torque and power required to operate a driven machine such as a pump. In that case, a motoring or driving dynamometer is used. A dynamometer that is designed to be driven is called an absorption or passive Dynamometer. A dynamometer that can either drive or absorb is called a universal or active dynamometer."
How exactly would u propose HP is measured then a MAVOMETER?
Once again as in my previous post
"Anyway I am sure mav will just reply after each line and say the opposite. Dyno's dont work, Iphone doesnt work, Nobody can ever rely on any measurements because they are all different etc etc."
*Disclaimer - Don't rely on me, seek your own professional advice. Audi R8 E-tron. 230kw 4500nm! (not a typo).
Economy at 100kph =5.5L
Mav, if Dynos are so inaccurate, how do the manufacturers get the power for their own engines in the first place...By plucking the answers out of the air like you do??
Manufacturers measure power on engines by connecting an engine dyno to the flywheel or crankshaft. This avoids all the issues of rolling dynos as you're measuring the power at the source.
Explain why you think dynos are accurate? Rather then launch a lame attack explain why dynos are accurate.
Here's an article from one of the biggest dyno manufacturers.
"There is much deliberation around the industry about dyno accuracy.
Just how accurate are the dyno power readings? Why does the
same car get different results on different days? Why does the same
car get different results on dynos from the same manufacturer and
from different manufacturers?"
"But some people say that the accuracy of a dyno is not as important
as its ability to reflect the outcome when modifications are made to
a vehicle, and its repeatability. Others say a dyno is only useful as a
tuning tool and does not need to be relied upon to be accurate. Is it
any wonder people get confused. Read on to get an understanding
of the reasons behind the variations in results."
"A difference of 8KW's can be seen on a Subaru WRX by just changing from one tyre/wheel combination to another"
"The Results:
ATP (Dynojet) - 275.8whp and 232.2 torque
Vishnu (DynoDynamics) - 224.7whp and 192.2 torque
So depending on how you look at it ... Dynojet runs 22.74% higher than a DynoDynamic or DynoDynamic runs 18.53% lower than a Dynojet (with regards to whp). Check out these graphs ... (oops ... I can't figure out how to get multiple attachments with a single post)"
"The problem is there are other "undocumented variables" that you have no way of knowing. For example take a car and put it on a chassis dyno (not a hub type) and do a dyno run right after you drive the car in with 38 psi in the tires. Go get a soda and let the car cool off (transmission lube, differential grease, engine oil cool off) do the run again and the power will be down (provided you left the hood open so the engine did not heat soak.
Now take the tire pressure down to 28 psi and run it again --- power will drop again.
Now go cinch up the tiedown straps a couple notches and try it again --- power will be down again.
Now do several pulls so all the oil/lube temps come back up and and your power will come up, as friction drops due to thinner lube oil.
Then as mentioned above, put a good strong fan on the intercooler (which is now hot) and redo the pull, power will go up. As the tires heat up and tire pressures climb rolling resistance will drop."
Mav, besides speculating, what do you actually do for a job?? It can't be too technical...
How about explaining why you believe that Dyno's are all accurate and can be used for comparisons? It's a bit lame when you have to resort to pathetic attacks instead of explaining your reasoning.
How about explaining why you believe that Dyno's are all accurate and can be used for comparisons? It's a bit lame when you have to resort to pathetic attacks instead of explaining your reasoning.
I don't need to explain myself to a guy that has no idea, because you just wouldn't get it...This isn't the only thread you have shown this on...I'm leaving it at that...Can you?
"If can't get behind your troops, feel free to stand in front of them..."
After all, you are always right!
"If can't get behind your troops, feel free to stand in front of them..."
Tweet
Comment