GTI tuning modifications - what would you do?

[Maverick]

Actually it does have 140kw stock... dyno tests have shown power figures at the wheels of about 120kw.

Dyno tests are not really that accurate, there can be 20kw difference between sites and even different operators on the same machines. VW quote it as 125kw stock. There are people who have dynos of the GTI putting out 140+kw at the wheels with stock cars.

What are the revo tunes supposed to show? One is the 1.4 140ps and the other the 1.8 TFSI?

When that aussie car show tested 2 GT's they got one with 120kw at wheels also and called head of VW australia to ask him about it. Its on youtube somewhere

Must be a popular show!

I wear a watch that costs almost $10k so GT vs GTI was not a money issue for me. I like twincharging as an Idea and because I felt it was much better value for money.

I wear a watch that cost $400 and found that the GTI stacked up the best with the GT TDI second best.

My car can go faster than a stock GTI because its a modified GT. I have done exhaust and intake and I have stripped about 50kg out of my car. Once I fit semi slick tyres I will go even faster than 6.9.

Exhaust and intake is not going to take 1 second of your 0-100 time. Inaccurate calculation of 0-100 time would.

GTI is a fantastic car but I could not justify $6-10k price difference over GT. This car is just a fun POV pack ****ter for me to drive to uni and park

Not having money to piss away I choose the best car of the lot and will look after it, buying a GT TSI and ripping it's guts out isn't on my agenda.

Lastly, Dynolicious is very accurate if its mounted correctly. Youtube video's show it being within a tenth of actual qtr mile. I found it very very accurate because it matches the power output coming from the ECU power reading 185hp.

It can be accurate but it's clearly not in this case! The GT TSI doesn't have 185hp.

[Mischa]

I think you've been racing GT TDI's because the GT TSI has no chance of keeping up with a GTI even if the GTI has stock suspension!

a gt with coilovers would munch a stock gti on any set of regular bends.

[Maverick]

I thought they were much the same with stage 1: +30hp (or are some stage 1 GTI tunes more than that?)
All hearsay until a real-life human actually puts one in a TSI.

Looking at the quoted increases on the TSI show a much smaller increase then the GTI. APR up it from 147kw to 188kw and 280nm to 411nm so it's pretty substantial.

The TSI supercharger torque down low lets it keep up quite admirably at everyday speeds. It's at those everyday speeds on public roads where the differences are much fuzzier.

Except on hot days The GTI has a lot of low down torque and even more so once you chip the car, the TDI is slow to take off but once it builds up some steam is fast.

Like others in GTs, the car I chose appealed to me more than the GTI.
I don't think I have anything to prove, but also haven't undergone any therapy to dig deeper into that.
I also don't want my car to be a GTI, despite having some GTI side skirts fitted this Thursday

Shall I send you an I to add to your GT badge

On that note, I'm off to start a fight with some Polo guys... maybe an oiler too.

Sounds like fun, where is cogdoc?

Option A for me as well (which was the chip option wasn't it? - forgot what this thread was about )

[TDIESEL]

Dyno tests are not really that accurate, there can be 20kw difference between sites and even different operators on the same machines. VW quote it as 125kw stock. There are people who have dynos of the GTI putting out 140+kw at the wheels with stock cars.

What are the revo tunes supposed to show? One is the 1.4 140ps and the other the 1.8 TFSI?



Must be a popular show!



I wear a watch that cost $400 and found that the GTI stacked up the best with the GT TDI second best.



Exhaust and intake is not going to take 1 second of your 0-100 time. Inaccurate calculation of 0-100 time would.



Not having money to piss away I choose the best car of the lot and will look after it, buying a GT TSI and ripping it's guts out isn't on my agenda.



It can be accurate but it's clearly not in this case! The GT TSI doesn't have 185hp.

Geez Maverick Are you a professional critic or simply enjoy putting posts written here down? I'm sure all the other GTI owners here don't share your "mine is better" attitude. Perhaps a bit of tact should be employed in your responses. Or better still if you have nothing positive to offer..don't.

[Greg Roles]

I lap it up and use it as motivation to get under the hood....

[Manaz]

Must be a popular show!

I've seen this myself. They ran a GT up on a dyno, and were shocked that the power output at the wheels was almost identical to a GTI. They then went and borrowed another GT from a dealer to see if they got the same result, and it the result on the 2nd car was within accepted testing error ranges to be considered identical.

[Maverick]

Geez Maverick Are you a professional critic or simply enjoy putting posts written here down? I'm sure all the other GTI owners here don't share your "mine is better" attitude. Perhaps a bit of tact should be employed in your responses. Or better still if you have nothing positive to offer..don't.

Take your own advice and don't post, this is a discussion about modifications and how people can view their changes through rose coloured glasses and also how the measurement tools that people use are not necessarily very accurate and not able to be compared against other cars that have been measured in different ways.

[Maverick]

I've seen this myself. They ran a GT up on a dyno, and were shocked that the power output at the wheels was almost identical to a GTI. They then went and borrowed another GT from a dealer to see if they got the same result, and it the result on the 2nd car was within accepted testing error ranges to be considered identical.

But did anyone consider that the Dyno was inaccurate?

I have a Dyno here where a stage 1 GTI had 574.1nm of torque and ~120kw of power. The Dyno was checked and it kept coming back with that figure.

Another dyno a bosch mechanical gave me ~149kw at the wheels soon after.

For that Dyno result to have been even remotely accurate they would have needed to have obtained a few GTI's to see what they achieved. My bet is that they would have been getting around 165-170 at the wheels with the GTI based on the GT's improvements.

[mrx]

Re: The original question. Definately stage 2 + downpipe before a fuel pump. The fuel pump is just the icing on the cake and pretty exe!

Re: Chip vs. Suspension. If your car is primarily to get you to work and back, as mine is, then a chip will make you grin every time you put your foot down. I would say that I can count the number of times on one hand that I have been on the limits of the stock GTI suspension on the road. On the track is a different story, and I'd recommend it if you regularly intend to track your car. Obvious from tinto's videos is how much earlier the instructor was able to get onto the power compared to me going around the same corner.

Re: Polar's iPhone. It's funny how different people remember the same event so differently. Next time we have a track day at AHG you should bring your iPhone and we can compare between GT/GTI, standard suspension or not, chipped or not, different drivers, manual/DSG, or any other combination you can think of. Then even if the iPhone's numbers aren't correct (I have my doubts), it's a more valid comparison. Who knows, maybe I can crack 5 seconds in my GTI!

Re: Vagcom. Greg, I've also only done a few runs. The best I could muster up in a Bluefinned manual GTI was high 14's. My excuse is it was 40degrees at the time (intake air temp 65degrees).

[tinto]

Obvious from tinto's videos is how much earlier the instructor was able to get onto the power compared to me going around the same corner.

Insane instructor driving skills aside, it is worth noting that you would have been up something like 70hp over my car too so a lot more potential rubber burning activity

Just so it's clear for others - I'm not the one driving in the AHG clip.
I'm the hack drooling in awe on the left

He'd been in GTIs for a couple of laps (and an R32) before me, and you'll notice him looking down at one point coming down the straight where he's obviously thinking "is this thing on...?"

[G-rig]

Sounds like we need a few GTI lap times to make a comparison.

Tinto did the instructor think/say your car would be quicker than GTI's and R32's around the circuit?

Mav, after quality market suspension like the V3 makes a big different in the vehicles dynamics,, especially with sway bars and allows you to throw it around a corner faster. Even semi slicks vs normal tyres can give you 3 sec a lap. So it's not that un believable, but depends on the track. If it's tight then the GT would do alright but the faster cars would make up too much time on any decent length of straight.

[gregozedobe]

If people think dyno figures can't be compared, how on earth will you get any agreement about lap times at a track ?

Lets see, you would need to eliminate all the variables :

Same track
Same day
Same track temp
Same driver (with equal skill and ability in all the diff cars)
Same tyres (ie the one set for all cars - is that practical/feasible ?),
Same tyre temp
Avoiding excessively high brake temps (don't want brake fade affecting results for some cars if they do more laps)
No other traffic (can slow you down, force you to change lines etc)
Some "Control" runs (eg back into first run car to see tyres haven't gone off during the day)

What have I left off ?

[Guy_H]

If people think dyno figures can't be compared, how on earth will you get any agreement about lap times at a track ?

Lets see, you would need to eliminate all the variables :

Same track
Same day
Same track temp
Same driver (with equal skill and ability in all the diff cars)
Same tyres (ie the one set for all cars - is that practical/feasible ?),
Same tyre temp
Avoiding excessively high brake temps (don't want brake fade affecting results for some cars if they do more laps)
No other traffic (can slow you down, force you to change lines etc)
Some "Control" runs (eg back into first run car to see tyres haven't gone off during the day)

What have I left off ?

Sounds simple

[tinto]

Sounds like we need a few GTI lap times to make a comparison.

Tinto did the instructor think/say your car would be quicker than GTI's and R32's around the circuit?

Mav, after quality market suspension like the V3 makes a big different in the vehicles dynamics,, especially with sway bars and allows you to throw it around a corner faster. Even semi slicks vs normal tyres can give you 3 sec a lap. So it's not that un believable, but depends on the track. If it's tight then the GT would do alright but the faster cars would make up too much time on any decent length of straight.

He didn't say that to me.
I've unintentionally (OR WAS IT?) left out that I was also on R888 that day.

I do know that MRX in the chipped / eibach'd skoda wagon eclipsed me by a significant margin, despite having to put the power down later. With one long straight and a few higher speed sections, it made sense. Painful, small-man-syndrome ego-bruising sense.

I agree with what you've said re tight courses and the GT. That's the sort of thing I plan on doing more of - matching the car to the environment.
Like sandbagging in a kids' bike race.

[mrx]

If people think dyno figures can't be compared, how on earth will you get any agreement about lap times at a track ?

Lets see, you would need to eliminate all the variables :

Same track
Same day
Same track temp
Same driver (with equal skill and ability in all the diff cars)
Same tyres (ie the one set for all cars - is that practical/feasible ?),
Same tyre temp
Avoiding excessively high brake temps (don't want brake fade affecting results for some cars if they do more laps)
No other traffic (can slow you down, force you to change lines etc)
Some "Control" runs (eg back into first run car to see tyres haven't gone off during the day)

What have I left off ?

But you can do 0-100 times as timed by your iPhone and prove that the numbers don't mean squat!