Editorial Post - Engine tunes and modification

[mikinoz]

Unfortunately the situation is that there is a fracture in the water cooled MKV community when it comes to engine tunes. As a long time user and an adinistrator that manages the content on this site, I think that I need to make a statement not on tuning, but the one of discussion we are willing to tolerate on this site.

There are MANY players out there that will tune your humble TDI or GTI for you, from mild to wild, from chip tune to complete engine rebuild, to get more out of your wonderful MKV Golf.

Unfortunately, as is the case on this forum, along with Golf MKV and VWVortex (and many others I am sure) there is a keen support amongst the user group when it comes to the different tune manufacturers and also the tuners doing the work themselves. This diversity in itself is great and much can be learnt from all concerned. The issue however is that there is a tendency for people to prove via the method of one-up-man-ship that they indeed have the best/better solution to upgrading their car.

Each person that decided to buy a MKV went out and did so most likely after considering another car in the category - why wouldn't you? In the case that the said person has now purchased the car and is looking to get more out of their new pride - again, consideration of alternatives is important - not just taking the opinion of a manufacturer website - or similar. This is part of the fun in modification of cars, the time spent researching and making the decision that you think is right for you.

In terms of the people that are working on or supplying the performance enhancing products - likewise - you have done so based on product and also profitability.

Technical knowledge is a powerful thing. Doctors don't learn about internal combustion in their degree, and as such go to a mechanic to repair their cars. Suppliers of car enhancements are professionals in the car industry and as such are giving their advice based on their knowledge - limited, extensive or otherwise. Opinion and fact are the things that need to be differentiated when people comment on engine tuning and as such this requires people to be able to read into the comments made by a poster. It is up to each person reading the site to interpret these comments as valid or not. The only person to take liability for advice given is the one that uses this advice.

There have been some epic chip wars over the time that I have been a VW owner and as such I am acutely aware that there is not a single option that will suit everyone. This is not a local issue, it is global and people are as passionate in Huonville, Tasmania about their VW as they are in Columbus, Ohio and as such we will always have people agree and disagree a certain amount. Same goes for 1/4 mile times.

Why I am posting is not to soap box, or show that I am above the 'chip wars' - but I am really wanting everyone to consider what they are posting when discussing engine tuning as this is a public forum and as such, anyone can swing past and pick up a single comment out of wider context.

I realise that making the peace in engine tuning has less likelihood than peace on Gaza Strip - but all I am asking is that people show a little more thought before mindlessly posting. Facts are fact, if a dyno graph is put up and it says 5000KW then that is what the dyno spat out. Yes there are variables, however that is the nature of dyno tuning - yes you can point that there are variables out there, but ultimately if someone feels that they are the bigger person for having a larger KW figure, well power to them. It is not reflective of the manufacturer, as there are so many variables.

So going forward, all of those out there that are involved with the tuning and discussion of, MKV, you start out with my full respect on the topic. Please keep your discussion and commentary on the appropriate tangent - constructive - and I am sure that this will remain. As many people out there involved with these discussions have met me - and if you have not, I hope that we can soon, you will realise that this is meant with the best of intentions.

Please don't degenerate this thread, if people want to take me to task on specifics, PM me and you can then get my phone number and give me a call.

I hope you all have a safe time on the roads this Christmas - all the best from myself and family.

Michael.

[Maverick]

Well said Michael, it's really unfortunate that there can't be a discussion about tuning/flashing/chipping without it being turned into a circus. It's the same on every forum and unfortunately it's often the same small group of posters (often using new accounts) that seem to like stirring things up

Maybe 2009 will bring peace and harmony to tuning/flashing/chipping threads

In the meantime enjoy your VW, tuned or untuned, flashed or unflashed and chipped or unchipped

[velly_16v_cab]

nice note, i couldnt agree more.

I

[Jarred]

About time. I don't even own a mkV and yet I was sick to death of these threads.

Thanks to the mods for staying above and stopping threads where nessecary before people started flinging poo at each other like monkeys.

[tinto]

I quite enjoyed the odd keyboard brawl.
Amongst the fug there were some interesting facts/points raised.
I'd have hoped most users could filter out the fanboys on both sides and work with the technical knowledge from both sides of the many-sided fence.

The point raised this morning (and swiftly deleted) about stock internals w/bigger turbos was an interesting one, especially given the bent-rod thread (in the US) on the golfmkv forum.
That discussion could have perhaps worked out better if it was put a little more diplomatically, but you're dealing with passionate people on all sides of the tuning community, so you should expect some fireworks from time to time.

I'll openly disagree with the policy of deleting threads (off-topic posts no worries).
But I also understand that while this forum is publicly accessible, it most definitely isn't a 'public' forum, otherwise threads wouldn't be deleted.
Controversial discussion isn't tolerated - that is not a criticism it is just an observation of behaviour.

If you don't have a MKV, I don't know why you'd bother reading about technical info & software tunes to 'get sick' of them.
I enjoy other golf threads, but always tune out of the technical stuff.
The Polo FTW rants are out of hand most of the time... but they're still entertaining!

[velly_16v_cab]

I quite enjoyed the odd keyboard brawl.
Amongst the fug there were some interesting facts/points raised.
I'd have hoped most users could filter out the fanboys on both sides and work with the technical knowledge from both sides of the many-sided fence.

The point raised this morning (and swiftly deleted) about stock internals w/bigger turbos was an interesting one, especially given the bent-rod thread (in the US) on the golfmkv forum.
That discussion could have perhaps worked out better if it was put a little more diplomatically, but you're dealing with passionate people on all sides of the tuning community, so you should expect some fireworks from time to time.

I'll openly disagree with the policy of deleting threads (off-topic posts no worries).
But I also understand that while this forum is publicly accessible, it most definitely isn't a 'public' forum, otherwise threads wouldn't be deleted.
Controversial discussion isn't tolerated - that is not a criticism it is just an observation of behaviour.

If you don't have a MKV, I don't know why you'd bother reading about technical info & software tunes to 'get sick' of them.
I enjoy other golf threads, but always tune out of the technical stuff.
The Polo FTW rants are out of hand most of the time... but they're still entertaining!

End of the day this IS a public forum so things do need to watch what is posted.

the quick removal of some of the post today was to stop all the flaming and to prevent some from happening.
I know we have some unset memeber who we are dealing with at the moment.
sometimes the ' PM ' button could have helped out.

[FJ Steve]

People need to sit back and re-read their post before hitting the "submit reply" button.

I have on many occasions (on this and other forums) typed a heated, baiting, trolling response. Before hitting the submit button, I have taken the time to re-read what I have typed, reviewed others comments that got me to that stage, and then worked out if my response was worthy of being publicly analyzed/criticized.

I must say that 9 times out of 10....I hit the refresh key and go back to viewing the forum.

[QuickA4]

My 2c

Real discussions supported by facts are worth gold.

Personal attacks should be deleted asap.
I only posted on this forum as to a certain person making what i deemed to be a personal attack.

What is interesting is some forums that attract a "sponsor" seem to become marketing tools for that company, that is fine to a extent, but the forum its self must remember why it was created and what its purpose is.
If the sponsor then becomes in control of what is posted, no longer the users of the forum get fair and balanced view.
It also becomes un-acceptable when a person gets banned, then certain other people then make public attacks against a banned person, giving them no way of reply or to defend themselves, that is now hinging on slander.

If some one puts a case forward and discussion based on facts and experiences just to be abused, one line attacks or what ever just goes to show the lack of knowledge by the attacker.

The internet is a wonderful and powerful thing, but the amount of crap that is posted is unbelievable.
The are many car nuts out there, but amazing me the amount of so called "Expert opinion" that there is out there by someone sitting behind a keyboard and has never turned a spanner in his life is amazing, and some of the so called technical information that is presented is totally wrong.
Remember a lot of posts are done by some people for certain interests and be ware of those posts, Just remember the term "Snake Oil".
There are many products in this world that are sold on the promise or make certain claims, but don't actually deliver or fall short, or fail to mention long term effects.
Good products will stand the test of time.

Hope you all have a merry Xmas and a good new year.

[Guy_H]

My 3 cents

My 3 cents

The moderation of this forum is pretty good, the forum is pretty good & we are happy to support & sponsor it (not just as a tuner, but someone with over 20 years experience working with VW's alone).

A bit of history for those who don't know me / us - I have run full professional workshops, spare parts departments, imported VW parts for over 20 years, had the largest VW / Audi wrecking yard in QLD (a lot of people on here know this), built Targa Tasmania class winning car from the ground up (VW of course) with a complete hybrid, one off motor running a custom destroked crank, Nissan rods & hand cut pistons. That car just completed Targa Tasmania this year (it's 10 years old - we won the class in 98') - and that motor has not been rebuilt. We have also run driver training day's around the country, we have run over a dozen tarmac rallies to prove our cars / products - Golf GTI Stage 3, Polo GTI K04, Audi A4 Stage 3, Audi TT Stage 3 & Porsche Cayman.

To have a competitor come on (or a competitors agent) and bash someones product is just bad form & bad sport. Instead of doing this, I suggest they concentrate on their own product & promote it's good points - you might go a lot further doing this.

On the point questioned in the last couple of posts is our experience with stage 3 cars: We have delivered over a dozen of them (B6 A4) around the country in the last 4 years, all are running smoothly & strongly in almost every state in the country - reliable, daily drivers. Our RHD transverse stage 3 kit is an export item (How many VW / Audi tuners export their products from Australia?) - there are a dozen kits running in the UK (mostly on MKIV Golfs), we have kits in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Japan, and have just received our first export order for China. This kit contains 60% Australian products, 40% US products, jointly developed by APR Australia & APR US, and is a retail, off the shelf product.

To imply that we "blow up" motors is simply ridiculous, as it was 4 years ago (which has been proven over time) & is just as silly now.

The other part of our Business (VW / Audi) is in electronics, we retrofit Navigation Systems, telephone systems, reverse camera's, update Can controllers - stuff that VW & Audi have trouble doing within their dealer network - we see on average 4 new cars a week.

So "expert" opinion, we may not be, but we (and through our dealer network around the country) get to tune over 300 VW's / Audi's / Skoda's a year, we have a fair idea what is going on.

Hope this is taken as constructive criticism - it's not a personal attack on anyone - or the forum.

[Blitzen]

The are many car nuts out there, but amazing me the amount of so called "Expert opinion" that there is out there by someone sitting behind a keyboard and has never turned a spanner in his life is amazing, and some of the so called technical information that is presented is totally wrong.
Remember a lot of posts are done by some people for certain interests and be ware of those posts, Just remember the term "Snake Oil".
There are many products in this world that are sold on the promise or make certain claims, but don't actually deliver or fall short, or fail to mention long term effects.
Good products will stand the test of time.

Hope you all have a merry Xmas and a good new year.

Same to you too...

I have found that it it is good to read the persons profile to see what the actually do or have done before, that way it saves you the embarrassment later on...

Ryan

[mikinoz]

I think that the short story here is that personal attacks in a public forum are unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

People slagging another's brand without 1st had experience, or hard technical fact is muck-raking and also will not be tolerated.

Ultimately the same rules need to apply in this forum as in person and I think that if you have a bone to pick, then take it up with the people involved.

True technical information is what this forum was started to discuss - it has over time diluted somewhat - however I think that as we turn over to a new year, then so can the forum to have a renewed focus on this over petty arguing.

Those that clearly are inciting arguments will be asked to re-phrase their post, then next step is deletion of post, next banning of the user.

In reality we are here for the majority, not the minority. As previously stated - people can feel free to contact me, or the Admin team about our position.

Once again, drive safe over the festive season.