Diesel vs Petrol

[Paul_OH]

Ok, silly question coming up.
This is something that I've thought about for a while and maybe will help others (if they're as thick as me!).

0-100km/h GT TSI has approx 7.5 and GTI has approx 7.2 (I'm sure others will correct me on this) whilst TDI has mid 8's (8.5?) second 0-100 time. All fine.....

The TDI has superior torque resulting awesome in-gear/overtaking acceleration, superior to the TSI/GTI..... Fine

Why doesn't the 0-100 time reflect this?

[Maverick]

Ok, silly question coming up.
This is something that I've thought about for a while and maybe will help others (if they're as thick as me!).

0-100km/h GT TSI has approx 7.5 and GTI has approx 7.2 (I'm sure others will correct me on this) whilst TDI has mid 8's (8.5?) second 0-100 time. All fine.....

Figures are WAY off.

0-100
TSI = 7.9 man
TSI = 7.7 DSG

TDI = 8.2 man
TDI = 8.2 DSG

GTI = 7.2 man
GTI = 6.9 DSG

The TDI has superior torque resulting awesome in-gear/overtaking acceleration, superior to the TSI/GTI..... Fine

Why doesn't the 0-100 time reflect this?

Because the 0-100 time isn't everything!

The diesel is a slower revving engine with a narrow power band, there is a little turbo lag off the line as well plus it's heavier. They deliver power differently, one has a turbo and super charger, one has just a turbo.

But load up the car with people and the TDI will walk all over the TSI. Plus there is more you can do with the TDI as far as extra power goes.

[gregozedobe]

Lots of discussions around about this subject. As Maverick said, TDIs generally have better in gear acceleration, particularly at lower engine revs, while TFSIs and TSIs generally have better acceleration from a standing start and at higher engine revs.

Petrols gain because of higher power output at higher revs, plus their ability to rev higher gives them either higher speed in a given gear and/or lower gearing in a given gear.

Main acceleration factors are :

1 Power to weight ratio (not torque) - NB the area under the power curve is more significant than the peak figure, so a flat power curve (eg GTI) is better than a steep curve (eg Honda VTEC).
2 Traction (more so for standing starts)
3 Gearing

I always tell people to drive them all, then buy the one that they prefer.

[Greg Roles]

Basically a combination of turbo lag, something you TSI'ers don't have, and the fact with the low rev range you have to change into third to get to 100kph. Because the GTI and TSI have bigger rev ranges, you don't have to do the extra gear change.

All that aside I've no idea what my actual real world 0-100k is, but I am pretty much willing to line up anything, including you my friend!

[STV4SYT]

Also the GTI has launch control to help it get off the line.

not sure about TSI but i know the TDI doesnt, and in DSG pretty tricky to get a good launch without snapping your spine.

[Maverick]

Also the GTI has launch control to help it get off the line.

not sure about TSI but i know the TDI doesnt, and in DSG pretty tricky to get a good launch without snapping your spine.

The times quoted don't include launch control.

Using launch control can result in times up to .7 second faster according to some reviews.

[Paul_OH]

All good responses thanks and no flame war intended, I'm not here to debate or defend the +/- of either just curious that's all.
I know the 0-100km/h time isn't everything and would prefer in-gear acceleration anyday. I too would be curious to see a TSI, TDI & GTI line up side by side over 400 or 1000m.

I guess case in point, my previous car was a 2003 Mazda6, the 0-100km/h time was very good for it's class but the 80-120km/h time was absolutely woefull = no torque!

ps yes the TSI has launch control

Thanks all for your input

Paul

[nayfen]

tdi + dsg = ftw

[tinto]

tdi + dsg = ftw

Excellent contribution.

How much heavier is the diesel?
cogdoc, I'd be up for it if we weren't at opposite ends of the country!

Launch control will still see you sitting in a puddle of melted rubber if you let go at too high an RPM. I believe the sweet spot is somewhere around 2-2.5k.

In the TSI with the immediate torque just off idle, I don't think there's much benefit to using it or not, other than the tyres becoming immediately 'warm'

[GTom]

How much heavier is the diesel?

Diesel Man - 1375
Diesel DSG - 1410

TSI Man - 1340
TSI DSG - 1375

GTI Man - 1340
GTI DSG - 1360

I too would be interested to see the differences between all 3, My only real complaint about the TSI is that under certain conditions it doesn't give you the supercharger straight away!

[Pumpe-Düse]

Figures are WAY off.

0-100
TSI = 7.9 man
TSI = 7.7 DSG

TDI = 8.2 man
TDI = 8.2 DSG

GTI = 7.2 man
GTI = 6.9 DSG

Those are excellent manufacturer quoted times, which are much slower then real world.

Its more like...

TSI = 7.3-7.5 man
TSI = 6.9-7.1 DSG

TDI = 7.7-8.0 man
TDI = 7.1-7.3 DSG

GTI = 6.5-6.9 man
GTI = 6.0-6.2 DSG

[Russ59]

Does it really matter if a TSI is a bit quicker than a TDI off the mark, when it's all said and done they are both excellent engines and we all have our preference. I chose the diesel (and manual transmission) as it is my first brand new car and I intend to keep it for a long time to come. I'm almost an Old Fart and to me a diesel is for the long haul and that was the main reason I bought one, the fact that it goes like a branded bull is just a bonus !!

Russ

[Mischa]

Basically a combination of turbo lag, something you TSI'ers don't have, and the fact with the low rev range you have to change into third to get to 100kph. Because the GTI and TSI have bigger rev ranges, you don't have to do the extra gear change.

All that aside I've no idea what my actual real world 0-100k is, but I am pretty much willing to line up anything, including you my friend!

turbo lag is easily cured by clutch dumpage although i admit there is a bit of lag when changing gears. i'd be curious to see a rolling accel from 80 comparison between the tsi and tdi

[Mischa]

Those are excellent manufacturer quoted times, which are much slower then real world.

Its more like...

TSI = 7.3-7.5 man
TSI = 6.9-7.1 DSG

TDI = 7.7-8.0 man
TDI = 7.1-7.3 DSG

GTI = 6.5-6.9 man
GTI = 6.0-6.2 DSG

where did you pull these figures from?

[Pumpe-Düse]

where did you pull these figures from?

Various, foreign magazine tests. Various figures posted by owners on the internet.

http://www.gayot.com/lifestyle/automobile/reviews/2006/volkswagen_gti.html

^^ Standard Golf GTI DSG doing 0-60 mph in 6.0 seconds (and Gayot is the guy's surname, its not actually a "happy," site lol!)

http://www.dragtimes.com/Volkswagen-GTI-Timeslip-11707.html

^^ Standard Golf GTI Manual doing 0-60 mph in 6.21 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 14.51 @ 95.02 mph.

I've got an old issue of EVO lying around, from when they test the Civic Type R (new one) against the Golf GTI manual, Megane 230 F1 R26, Focus ST, Seat Leon Turbo thing, Astra VXR etc. They did 6.7 sec 0-62 mph (100km/h) in the manual GTI. There are more...