Engineer's certificate for remap ?

[gregozedobe]

......here in QLD we have this lovely brochure from QLD Transport that we keep in the office:

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/reso..._vehicles2.pdf

Thanks for that info Guy.

On page 4 of the Qld "Modifications" booklet under the heading Fuel systems it says-
"Powerchips, multiple and/or replacement carburettors may be fitted to any motor vehicle provided the vehicle continues to comply with the emission requirements of the Australian Design Rules applicable at the time of the vehicle’s manufacture."

As it specifically says "Powerchips" then I would think that clearly includes ECU remaps (not an outrageous assumption). So after a remap, the car would still have to comply with the emission ADRs that applied to the car when it was new.

In the ACT they don't require a full retest of emission ADRs, only a short form of emission testing (done on a warm engine) that is called an "IM240" test, done on a dyno (not available in the ACT, but I am told there are two locations in Sydney that can do the test).

Do you know if any Australian vendors have done any emission testing (ADRs, IM240 or something else) as part of their Australian R & D of their remaps to suit the current VAG 2.0 TFSI motor, and if they have what were the results ?

I wonder if they have them for the other states?

In the ACT they refer you directly to the federal web page with the VSBs that I linked to earlier (a much more demanding read than the Qld booklet).


Thanks,

Greg C

[Guy_H]

Hey Greg,

Correct,

We certainly have, and recently did it with the 2.0TFSI components as well - this was not for general sale to the public, it was a special case for a manufacturer using our software for a form of production racing. I will see if we can use these documents as a sample.

We have also supplied the TUV certificates on emissions from Germany on that particular (Oettinger) tuning to several customers who required it, and it was used as "meets or exceeds" the Australian standard (one was in Canberra).

I can not speak for anyone else.

I suppose a "custom tune" would be even tougher again!

[gregozedobe]

Thanks again Guy,

If the ACT rego people are satisfied with that sort of documentation then I even may be able to avoid the need for an engineers certificate. I will contact you directly for details of what you have for my Skoda.

[PirelliAC]

OK Pirelli AC, I will continue be polite and refrain from swearing

What evidence can you offer to contradict what the ACT rego man told me, aside from your obviously strongly held belief (wish ?) that it should be the way you want it to be ?

I have talked to the person in my state who actually oversights registration of modified vehicles, AFAIK there isn't anyone who can over-ride his opinion on these matters. Just because you don't like it, didn't know about it, or can point to lots of people who are also doing the same or similar things doesn't make it legal (it's a bit like being booked for speeding, none of the above excuses will get you off).

Remember I am talking about what is legal (technically and actually), not what is illegal but hasn't been discovered and prosecuted (just because no one has bothered to do anything about it yet or it is too hard to discover).

Also, I am not saying that a lot of these mods (eg remaps, exhausts) would fail the relevant tests, simply that they are illegal because they haven't been tested and certified.

For your guidance I'll give you a few quotes from the Vehicle Standards Bulletins (NCOP) documentation, which seems to be the official line on this matter according to the appropriate registration authorities -

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle%5Fregulation/bulletin/

VSB 14 National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification (NCOP). (NB any typos are mine, I couldn't cut and paste from the original document ).

In the Engine Modifications Code LA4 section.

Page 28
"The modified vehicle must continue to comply with all applicable ADRs, VSRs, VSBs, Acts and Regulations."

"Gaseous Emmissions: ADR 27, 30, 36, 37, 40, 70, 79
External Noise: ADR 28, 83"

Page 29
"SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS
Engine modifications such as changes to engine management systems.....have the capacity to to substantially increase a vehicle's power and performance and are generally considered on the same basis as a performance engine conversion with a safety upgrade required."

I think a remap may just be classed as "changes to engine mangament systems".

page 31
Checklist
"3.1 If power has increased by more than 20%, has the vehicle been upgraded to comply with specific requirements outlined above in Code LA4"

IIRC correctly most remap vendors claim more than a 20% increase in power for their turbo remaps.

From what I've read it isn't a grey area at all. It seems to me that remapping IS a modification covered by these NCOP requirements (ie emission testing and an engineers certificate. I'd be happy to be PROVEN wrong, but against the official literature I have seen to date any refuting evidence will need to be a pretty compelling.

FWIW the main concern of the guy from rego was that ALL cars comply with the relevant ADRs, modified or not.

I'm starting to feel like the new bloke in the Kingdom who has dared to point out that the emperor's new clothes don't actually cover up his ugly body

I know and understand that many people are happy to remap but not tell their registration authority (and usually their dealer), and often not their insurers as well, and that they are very unlikely to be found out. And that some weren't even aware that they might be doing something illegal.

However, I like to do things by the book, particularly if there is potentially a very high cost to being caught out. In doing my pre-purchase research for remapping I think I have discovered a serious problem, at least for a risk-averse person like me.

I agree with nismo23, if you are going to remap (or have done it already) and haven't gone the official testing and certification route, you should remove all publically available information that might suggest your car has been remapped.

ok i stand corrected, but this is still horse ****e!! Really we need to be focusing on the people operating these cars not the cars themselves!!

[gregozedobe]

....., but this is still horse ****e!! Really we need to be focusing on the people operating these cars not the cars themselves!!

I agree. The most dangerous part on any car has always been the "nut behind the wheel".

Unfortunately it is very difficult to make a real change in attitude to the people who need it the most. That's why we end up with so many unsatisfactory "lowest common denominator" solutions (eg blanket speed limits set for heavy trucks, strict rules on modifying cars etc).