1.4 TSI assembly and stress test engine power figure!

[POLARBEAR666]

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1262293

check out the thread there for all the screencaps from the video.

Looks like peak power at engine can go to 159kw with all factory components.

[Guest212]

159kw for about 5min before it grenades mabye

[POLARBEAR666]

As far as I can see. the only thing that limits the engines power output atm the is the turbo size. I doubt 160kw is beyond the block, rods, etc as they are likely to be super strong to handle the existing 2 bar+ boost!

[BarneyBoy]

True, 2.5 bar is a heap of boost to handle.
But that's one of the reasons why the 1.4 was remade in cast iron rather than the alloy it normally is. Mind you, there's still only 4mm between bores, which is not very much by any measure.

Still, what do we know? More than all VW's engineers? I think they prolly did a great job. Their reliability tests mean its pretty bullet-proof.

[Greg Roles]

Interesting find, but what you'd kind of expect for a passenger car really. Any "Joe public" car is going to have a built in safety factor, as the last thing ANY business wants is to be forking out on a heap of warranty claims, which cost the bottom line. The simple fact you can buy aftermarket hot up parts for already insane Porsche specials and the like goes to show the factory always limits the output to aid longevity.

But mate, go for it! I'm sure you can pep up the impressive TSI and it's that factor that had me set on buying one actually ( until I tried the Jeckyl/Hyde TDI that is! ). Plenty of things to tweak, but as per any forced induction motor, the thermal capacity of the engine would be my first port of call, and it's exactly what I'm up to with the TDI. Been a quiet few months thanks to flippin interest rates and the like, but currently talking to Plazmaman about a nice Water to Air core, and about to run some tests with a nice 4 input digital thermometer I just bought on e-bay. Will let me monitor temps from four spots, and most importantly across the stock air intercooler. Coupled with my rather large industrial pressure gauge, I will have some data for both temp and pressure difference data across various portions of the VW inlet and exhaust. Boost guage and EGT about to be hooked up too, so it's mad scientist for the next few weeks for me!

[POLARBEAR666]

Good idea cogdoc. I think water to air core is a great idea.

I was thinking you could whack a small one in somewhere on the intercooler pipework under the car and then just run the water lines to a pump thats run off ignition and to a race oil cooler mounted in a row behind the bumper.

I was thinking about this whole idea.... and then I thought, might as well just buy the forge twintercooler for the TSI when they release it finally, they have pre-production pics on their website.

One issue is that you should not remove the factory intercooler and replace it with teh water core as this could change airflow so much that you would need a retune... .if you just add it in addition then it will reduce flow slightly but u will get heaps better inlet temps and more power. No need for retune then.

[Greg Roles]

Hmmm, that's a good point I hadn't even considered.

At First I toyed with the idea of two small cores, before and after the stock air to air, and was considering Lindsey racing ones, but on reading some japper turbo mags, Plazma sure sounds like what I'm after.

I figure one post Air to air, down low so it doesn't heatsoak is the answer. There's room in the TDI, unsure of the TSI situation. I found a KTM50 motocross radiator will fit with a little metalwork behind the passenger fog light shroud, and had figured this would be my setup. I'm sure any 50cc or similar bike radiator would be a potential, this is what was on e-bay at the time. This way I'm not adding ANY extra heat to the Air 2 Air.





Then I thought of putting the water core out front like your pic shows, and using the air to air as the water radiator for this core. Will have to put some thought into your suggestion, but I'm lost as to why the path or volume post turbo would be a problem, as it's under p[ressure, is it MAF calibration??

[Greg Roles]

Much to do over Christmas actually!

[POLARBEAR666]

I like your efforts to do stuff.. I have been tinkering too!

Redid my air intake and it looks like I bought a kit now.

The reason you cant just bypass the original factory intercooler is that if you fit just the water to air core, it may be far more efficient than the factory intercooler in terms of its airflow volume.

The problem would be thus: Turbo pressurises the air, it rushes into the water to air core, this flows much faster and easier than the factory core and now boost arrives at your inlet manifold 800rpm earlier than expected. Your computer tries to compensate by increasing fuelling but it maxes out its small adjustment capacity and now you are running slightly lean down low because boost is coming on so much sooner.

ALSO!!!! Your MAF only works in closed loop when you are at low throttle and cruising. When you go WOT it flicks over to open loop (just uses whatever values are in the computer and adjusts using oxygen sensor). So even if the MAF can compensate at low speeds it will be doing stuff all once u go WOT and your engine could grenade.

Get the picture? it would not be good without a custom tune.

BUT!!! if you just fit the water to air core after the normal one, you will just be increasing the lag slightly and this couldn't possibly cause issues as the car would be expecting slightly more air than its getting and you would initially just run a tad rich and then it would compensate. Therefore, it would still be safe and productive, you would just get a nice increase from chopping 10-15 degrees c off the intake air to the manifold.

The benefit of the water to air core is that it works more independently from airflow through the front grill.

[Greg Roles]

Thanks for the reply, and interesting things to consider ( that I hadn't considered! )

Thing is I have a diesel. I thought they run WOT airflow all the time, and even on backing off the turbo is often still boosting, as the diesel is regulated entirely by the amount of fuel injected, isn't it?

I thought diesels ran lean except AT full throttle application.

I will still ponder all this, and anyway, I'm flippin' broke for now, so a W2A core is still on the wish list, so I've plenty of thinking time!

[POLARBEAR666]

Im not up to speed on diesels but the same principles should apply. The engine needs to be able to adjust the fuel enough to cope with the way the engine is pumping. If it is getting more boost very early then it might max out the comps ability to make fine adjustments and you could run either too rich or too lean. Not sure on diesels. If you think about the concept that the computer is not able to use MAF readings at WOT... then you can see the problems that might arise if the computer is just going off the 1's and 0's pre programmed with a small amount of fuel and ignition trim rather than a custom map.

[gregozedobe]

cogdoc is right, diesels are very different in many ways to petrols, particularly with regard to control of incoming air.

[Guest212]

Thanks for the reply, and interesting things to consider ( that I hadn't considered! )

Thing is I have a diesel. I thought they run WOT airflow all the time, and even on backing off the turbo is often still boosting, as the diesel is regulated entirely by the amount of fuel injected, isn't it?

I thought diesels ran lean except AT full throttle application.

I will still ponder all this, and anyway, I'm flippin' broke for now, so a W2A core is still on the wish list, so I've plenty of thinking time!

You're right. Take any suggestions about a petrol, and basically put them in a bin when you're talking a diesel.

Talk modern diesel and you can relate a little bit more with the intake and turbo side of things, but still not worth the confusion of comparison.

Your diesel would be running on WOT airflow all the time, although under deceleration it is possible VW have chucked a butterfly valve in the intake somewhere to slow down air movement. It could also be in there to control swirl, many modern diesels have swirl control and even multiple differnet air intake paths to suit different running conditions.

Then you get the turbos. Wastegated turbos do work on diesels just fine. But in the Golf's case it'll be a variable geometry tyurbocharger where the exhaust turbine's fins can actually vary in pitch to produce different boost levels. Uber cool technology. The ECU adjusts the pitch of the fins using vacuum. Under deceleration it is not uncommon to see these fins close up to provide no positive intake boost pressure or even deploy to a position where the turbo provides more backpressure. Basically the way a diesels turbo would work is very different to what youd find on a petrol, even though the technology is exactly the same.

Its awesomely complex tuning and a hell of a lot more complex to the simple petrol, I believe anyway.