Legality for LED front fogs

[Wighty654]

Hi all,
Just a quick question as to whether LED front fogs are legal on a Mk4 Bora. I already have HID headlights but i've got away with them for a good couple of months while the cops are blitzing illegal mods...
Thanks, Josh.

[Guest001]

Hi all,
Just a quick question as to whether LED front fogs are legal on a Mk4 Bora. I already have HID headlights but i've got away with them for a good couple of months while the cops are blitzing illegal mods...
Thanks, Josh.

Can I politely ask that if you already have illegal headlights you are worried about the same for fogs.

As its now illegal to use foglights other than in inclement weather why worry about changing them.

[Wighty654]

Yes I am worried about the same for the fogs because the lights are legal with the correct equipment (sefl levelling motor and washing system) but i dont have them. If LED fogs are illegal I'll stick to halogen or similar so as not to draw attention to the lights on my car.
I understand its illegal to use them except in inclement weather however every second holden (including the police down here) use there fogs all the time. That would be one law id be willing to break because it doesnt involve pulling things apart to fix, just a simple flick of a switch

[dylan8]

You talking about fogs in the headlights I lower grills?
I had a cop try to hand me a fine for the lower led lights, but go out of it.
I'm with above though, if any part of the car is illegal the rest generally doesn't matter

[Guest001]

Yes I am worried about the same for the fogs because the lights are legal with the correct equipment (sefl levelling motor and washing system) but i dont have them.

Thats like saying they are legal if you dont use them. LOL

Quite simply they are illegal as fitted.

I would ask a lighting expert whether the LED "fogs" Or "Wan*e"r lights as they are known QLD are efficient for what their purpose is.
That is providing the correct light in FOG

There are also "running " lights as in the Passats which are not fogs but could be construed as such.

I never turn them on as have LED DRL

[Wighty654]

So is that a yes LED fogs (lower grille) are illegal or a no they aren't?
I already have inbuilt fogs in the HID headlights I bought.
Might just play it safe and go with a decent set of halogens with the same colour light as the HID(or as close as i can) but make sure they are aimed properly.

[leighaus]

to use 'fogs' regardless of bulb is illegal unless weather permits, which in Australia is rare. drl's must be wired correctly and of the correct bulb type and luminous rating. having said that, after market drl's look tacky as hell.

just because you've gotten away with annoying as **** headlights for a few months doesn't mean you are safe. a fisherman doesn't catch every fish.

[Manaz]

Yes I am worried about the same for the fogs because the lights are legal with the correct equipment (sefl levelling motor and washing system)

When talking about those requirements, you're talking about HIDs, not LEDs.

And they're not legal (even if you meet the other requirements) unless they were fitted as a factory option on the same chassis. Luckily, the Mk4 Golf R32 had HIDs and shares a chassis designation (1J), so you're covered there.

I understand its illegal to use them except in inclement weather however every second holden (including the police down here) use there fogs all the time. That would be one law id be willing to break because it doesnt involve pulling things apart to fix, just a simple flick of a switch

You're talking about driving lights here, totally different kettle of fish.

[brimway]

Not sure if this is applicable to MK4 Bora, but you could fit LEDs to a MKV GTI fogs and code them to act as DRLs. Legality, not sure. A QT inspector told me that the main reason for making the use of fogs illegal was due to people fitting high wattage globes to their foglights. Also, some cars eg certain Jeep models, are fitted with twin rear fogs which are as bright as brake lights - very annoying following one at night.

[Guest001]

So is that a yes LED fogs (lower grille) are illegal or a no they aren't?
I already have inbuilt fogs in the HID headlights I bought.
Might just play it safe and go with a decent set of halogens with the same colour light as the HID(or as close as i can) but make sure they are aimed properly.

I think you are confusing fogs with Daylight Running lights.

I have never seen HID with fogs built into them. DRL yes.

Maybe some do but I havent noticed them as havent seen any fog in 10 years so no need for them to be on.

It is not illegal to have lights in the lower grille but it IS illegal to use them contrary to the regulations.

EG FOGS are only allowed in diminished light, extreme rain and foggy conditions.

They are not to be used as " LOOK AT ME" lights which 99.9% use them for and for which they serve absolutely no purpose.

Fog lights in the past when they were really FOG lights had a YELLOW light.

The reason is that white light gets reflected back off fog and you cant see at all especially if you try full beams.

Yellow light cuts through the fog far better but doesnt look as good when used as W**ker lights

Nowadays they stuff anything in usually white more for looks than usefulness and call them fog lights.

All they seem to do, because they are poorly focused is annoy oncoming drivers.

The lights you say you see on the cop cars are often classed as "other lights" (Not drivng lights which are different again ) by manufacturers to get around the Fog problem.

The Passat has similar but are low wattage and dont annoy oncoming drivers like those in Falcons and Commodores

One poster on another forum wanted to light up the area behind his headlight beams and just in front of the car. WHY!!!!!

If he didnt see it with the headlights would be too late afterwards. Cant believe some of them.

Leighaus's post says it pretty well and there was a thread on here recently that quoted the regulation regarding colour temp and luminosity as well

HAve a read of this for a start http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars...ets/headlights
and this

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/VehicleDesignStandardsAndAccessories/FogAndDrivingLights.htm

[Guest001]

Not sure if this is applicable to MK4 Bora, but you could fit LEDs to a MKV GTI fogs and code them to act as DRLs. Legality, not sure. A QT inspector told me that the main reason for making the use of fogs illegal was due to people fitting high wattage globes to their foglights. Also, some cars eg certain Jeep models, are fitted with twin rear fogs which are as bright as brake lights - very annoying following one at night.

Agree about the rears Mitsubishi Pajeros I think have them and it looks like they have their brake lights on all the time

Most distracting. Just cos the switch is there they have to use it without thinking of the consequences.

Almost as bad as those who never check their brake lights and havent got any. Have nearly had a few prangs when they bang them on and no lights come on.

[Manaz]

I think you are confusing fogs with Daylight Running lights.

I have never seen HID with fogs built into them. DRL yes.

Mk4 factory HIDs have this setup.

Maybe some do but I havent noticed them as havent seen any fog in 10 years so no need for them to be on.

It is not illegal to have lights in the lower grille but it IS illegal to use them contrary to the regulations.

EG FOGS are only allowed in diminished light, extreme rain and foggy conditions.

They are not to be used as " LOOK AT ME" lights which 99.9% use them for and for which they serve absolutely no purpose.

Fog lights in the past when they were really FOG lights had a YELLOW light.

The reason is that white light gets reflected back off fog and you cant see at all especially if you try full beams.

Yellow light cuts through the fog far better but doesnt look as good when used as W**ker lights

Nowadays they stuff anything in usually white more for looks than usefulness and call them fog lights.

All they seem to do, because they are poorly focused is annoy oncoming drivers.

The lights you say you see on the cop cars are often classed as "other lights" (Not drivng lights which are different again ) by manufacturers to get around the Fog problem.

The Passat has similar but are low wattage and dont annoy oncoming drivers like those in Falcons and Commodores

One poster on another forum wanted to light up the area behind his headlight beams and just in front of the car. WHY!!!!!

This is actually what properly aimed foglights do. The idea is that the light bounces up off the road and NOT back into your eyes.

If he didnt see it with the headlights would be too late afterwards. Cant believe some of them.

Leighaus's post says it pretty well and there was a thread on here recently that quoted the regulation regarding colour temp and luminosity as well

HAve a read of this for a start Headlights | Motoring | RACQ
and this
Fog & driving lights : VicRoads

On balance, I totally agree with the sentiment you're promoting here - illegal lighting configurations are illegal for what are generally good reasons. Yes, it's possible to produce decent light in a way that doesn't meet the ADRs or legal requirements, but I'd be surprised if anyone on this forum was actually qualified to legitimately make this claim, and thus the onus really needs to be on compliance with legal requirements.

[Guest001]

Mk4 factory HIDs have this setup.

One poster on another forum wanted to light up the area behind his headlight beams and just in front of the car. WHY!!!!!

This is actually what properly aimed foglights do. The idea is that the light bounces up off the road and NOT back into your eyes.



.

Correct but this guy wanted his fogs and heads on all at once as he complained about not seeing the dark bit behind them.

Cant fathom the reasoning there at all.

Yes yellow fogs were almost always mounted down low on bumpers so as they didnt reflect back at you.

The color of the light was absorbed more by the fog as well whereas white just bounces.

Doesnt matter how much you turn on, the drivers coming toward you wont see you any earlier.

Saw a thread on here from earlier where a poster was bragging about going up some cutting in a fog with everything including driving lights on.

Should be in a mental asylum.

I lived In Christchurch for a winter and the fog was so thick in the morning I had to ride the bike up the white line going to work in the dark.

Was interesting when a like minded guy was coming the other way Only just had time to duck out of the way LOL

[Guest001]

Read this thread from last year It explains the rules and reasons perfectly

Should be a sticky if its not already

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f14/why-you-cant-legally-retrofit-hid-lights-your-non-hid-car-56449.html

All quite plain and simple but not agreed with by the majority.

[Manaz]

Read this thread from last year It explains the rules and reasons perfectly

Should be a sticky if its not already

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f14/why-you-cant-legally-retrofit-hid-lights-your-non-hid-car-56449.html

All quite plain and simple but not agreed with by the majority.

Already a sticky - and for very good reason.