Race track brake pad suggestions?

[Sirocco20348]

Hey y'all,

The stock pads I have suffer extreme brake fade.

What brake pads do you suggest to run at the track?

Do I run the track pads all the time? even when not on the traqck?

Do I just change the front brake pads since they are going to be taking a majority of the stress? or both front and back?

Thanks in advance.

[Sirocco20348]

Bump

Surely someone has had track experience and can offer some brake pad advice.

I'm going too bleed my brakes firstly.

Anyone running steel braided brake lines?

[MACCAA]

Ferodo 2500's are a very good pad to run as a street/track application.
Mine have done nearly 40k including a fair few laps of Wakefield and Marulan.Still plenty of material left on them.
Work well from cold no noise[standard discs]-and very good with repeated applications when hot.
Had standard rear pads,recently replaced them when they wore out.
Running Hawk Ceramics on the rear-can't say I've noticed much difference.
Definitely replace the brake fluid with something like AP Racing,Motul or similar.
It makes a big difference.
Standard brake lines are fine if they're in good condition.

[kaanage]

What exactly do you mean when you say you have extreme brake fade?
Is the pedal going soft and spongy (fluid fade) or is the pedal staying firm and the car not pulling up (pad fade)?

Pad changes will not cure the former, only the latter form of fade.

Greg at GSL Rallysports (site sponsor) recommended to me that I should change my rotors if I were to use track pads as the pads deposit some of their material on to the rotor and this is what give the proper working friction of the pads. Without a rotor change, you need to bed the pads in by progressively braking harder and longer over a period of time.
DBA Bulletin - Basic Initial Brake Bedding In
Brake Pad Bed-In
Instructions for bedding in your brakes

For road and track use, he recommended me Remsa and QFM HPX pads while for pure track (or also hard road) use, he recommended the QFM A1RM pads. If you don't brake hard enough with track pads in daily use, you will need to bed them in again before track use.

Since you want the braking proportion to stay consistent, you should change front and rear pads to the same compound unless you are trying to correct a brake imbalance issue.

But contact Greg for the full picture

[jamesatfish]

I use the Ferodo 3000 R compound on my Polo - I did try the 2500s but I found they weren't withstanding longer track sessions and whilst they were still providing stopping power, the material was melting onto the rotors which required machining after every track day. For reference I'm running the Brembo 323mm brake upgrade supplied by APR.

The 3000s have proven much better - no problems with the material coming away on the track and no fade at all. They aren't as street-friendly as the 2500s though - they squeal like a stuck pig under low-pressure, low-speed braking such as coming to a stop at every set of lights. Dust isn't a big issue but I've got black wheels making it less noticeable anyway.

[noone]

Have a look at GSL Rally sport, they are a sponsor. They do nice pads, very price competitive and can offer a few different products.

If you can replace your own pads, I'd recomend a set that is designed for the track only and swap them out before you leave the track.

What car are you running? Front pads tend to do most of the work...

[type 17]

I have run a bunch of different compound brake pads on stock rotors,

Hawk HPS+ (i think they are called) are awesome, they are very noisy though and i get people yelling at me "change your brake pads, you don't deserve your car" I'm sitting there thinking doh.

EBC Redstuff on stock rotors are great compromise of street track, aren't too noisy but arent as good as the ceramic blend compounds.

EBC Yellowstuff are good too, but again are quite noisy, or perhaps its the other way around.
.
Swap out if you can and get the most aggressive pads you can, but just do the fronts, 95% of the brake pressure is toward the front in high speed braking anyway.

Also, some good quality braided lines and high temp brake fluid is essential, will nearly make as much difference as the pads themselves.

[Sirocco20348]

Im running a golf iv gti with custom code stage 1... nothing special, but just taking all the precautions.

What exactly do you mean when you say you have extreme brake fade?
Is the pedal going soft and spongy (fluid fade) or is the pedal staying firm and the car not pulling up (pad fade)?

It doesnt take long for the pads to fade <15mins at high speeds... some corners are braking from 140km/h to 50km/h, others are 80km/h to 10km/h... anyway when approaching some of the final corners.. I am putting my foot on the brake, nothing, further, start to panic, brake all the way, and their was mininal braking affect... when pulling up to a car spot, with a brick wall right in front.. going about 5km/h.. the brakes barely worked and i nearly rolled into the wall.. lol..

I must admit I have not changed the fluid lately, for over 1.5 years now... so I definitely have to do that.

Thanks to everyone for the information you have provided.. ill work with that and see what I can do to improve my braking.

[kaanage]

But is

the pedal going soft and spongy (fluid fade)

or

the pedal staying firm and the car not pulling up (pad fade)

?

If it's the first, then change your fluid before spending any extra money.

[fred27]

Brake fluid absorbs moisture over time. Renew your brake fluid and bleed and you should have a a good hard pedal.
For track use, you could use Castrol SRF or Motul RBF600 brake fluid. For track pads, you have a good choice of; Pagid, Hawk or QFM A1RM.

[gslrallysport]

Yep, definitely sounds like a fluid issue not pads...

Of the 14-16 brands (I loose count...) of pads we do, I can pretty much narrow your choices down to 3 pads, depending on how serious you're taking it, and how much you want to spend.

The entry level track pad we go would be the QFM A1RM, which is a Ferodo DS2500 equivalent. To suit Golf 4 would be $119 per set front or rear.

Next level up would be the Project Mu Club Racer. This is probably the stand out track pad in the world. It's the sister compound to the V8 Supercar control pad (Project Mu H16-03) but is baked and finished in their street pad factory, not the competition factory, so you're getting a pad that's only slightly less in performance, but miles cheaper. They're around the $300-350 mark per set front or rear. In terms of pad life, when used in competition will last 4-5 times longer than an A1RM, or 1-2 times longer than a Ferodo DS3000, so value for money they're an unbelievably good pad!

Then top of the tree would actually be the H16-03, which is $450-$590 per axle set depending on application etc. The Project Mu is the first pad the V8's have run where they don't have to do a pad change to make the full race distance at Bathurst, but have to because of the regs. That will give you some idea on the life of the PMu pad relative to the other 'big brands' they've run in the past.

As far as fluid goes, got two options that we recommend. For street and semi regular track, go the Penrite Sin600, $25 per 500mL. Or for a more serious fluid, the Project Mu G Four 335 (as also used, but not required, by a lot of the V8 Supercar teams) is $85/L, which is damned good by competition spec fluid pricing standards...

Any questions at all feel free to give us a bell on 1300 884 836.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

Do I just change the front brake pads since they are going to be taking a majority of the stress?

Just on this point, it's definite not always the case...

With regards to the rear pads, probably the biggest mistake people make is neglecting the rear because they believe it does less work. Yes it's true that the rear 'axle' as a component does less of the overall vehicle braking, but it's also got substantially smaller hardware in which to do it with, so the actual 'brakes' themselves can often work nearly as hard as the front ones do. What can happen if you neglect the rear is that end starts to fade out slowly without you noticing, and it puts more pressure on the fronts, which causes them to fade, and people blame the front for a problem caused by the rear. You can get away with a lesser pad all round when the same pad is used. The two major exceptions are a VERY light front wheel drive, or something rear end heavy like a Porsche, neither of these apply in your case. All that said, in your case, I would recommend running the same pad front and rear, or one that's only slightly less in terms of bite, but definitely not a street pad... It's got to be something heavier duty than stock if you're going to change the fronts.

[Sirocco20348]

Thanks for that great information Greg!

[mikk]

i was about to say i fully agree with that poster, and then i realised it's greg from gsl rallysport, of course he knows what he's talking about!

hpx are a great pad if u do some spirited driving on the street and go to the track now and then. a1rm are good for the track if you're starting to get into it regularly but not so good to commute around on. that's my experience anyway.

pretty sure gsl rallysport will be able to sort u out with the suitable goods. their knowledge and service is top notch.

the stock rear pads on my 180sx pretty much fell apart at the track. rears are important!