150kw 12v; who can do it.

[HaydEn]

After my daily lurkings of the tex. I thought I'd make my interest for the week Big Valve Heads.

In the states, there's a bunch of guys breaching 200whp* (now we know they always make more) but. They all have a heap of different head builders.

My question is; who is possible of doing this work? The regular vw crowd?

Or perhaps breaking out to companies such as, trick and mansweato (800hp+ n/a v8. After all the head is just a head.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[Ben J]

Im fairly sure JHH racing built Alex's (now Devin's) moster vr6, if I were to spend big money on building an engine, thats where I would have mine done. I'm fairly sure theyre one of Australia's best. They're in Queensland though, not sure of NSW and such, I'm sure there is places down there too that are more than capable of doing it though. 150 KW at the wheels though isn't all that easy NA on these without spending a lot of money. American car's always show substantially bigger power numbers then us from what I've heard

[HaydEn]

I've yet to see any numbers from that engine. Plus it has the advantage of 3.0. But thanks for tip I'll check them out.

[mk3pete]

After my daily lurkings of the tex. I thought I'd make my interest for the week Big Valve Heads.

In the states, there's a bunch of guys breaching 200whp* (now we know they always make more) but. They all have a heap of different head builders.

My question is; who is possible of doing this work? The regular vw crowd?

Or perhaps breaking out to companies such as, trick and mansweato (800hp+ n/a v8. After all the head is just a head.

Anyone have any thoughts?

unfortunately our lovely little 12v head isnt just a head. Its probably one of the worst designed heads out there, as far as flow rates are concerned!

[HaydEn]

unfortunately our lovely little 12v head isnt just a head. Its probably one of the worst designed heads out there, as far as flow rates are concerned!

Yeah it's only 220cfm or less where as the mighty b16 of the same era was 500+

[Water Boy]

Of the powerful VR6 on this forum:

mk3pete: home built
Alex: as mentioned above built by JHH
There was a VR6 built I think in Sydney that now belongs to Brett at Volkspower (circuit car)
Steve old white VR6: loon built the motor
Seb: pretty sure sbe is building a N/A screamer on ITB's

But as many people have mentioned its not cheap or easy to get power from an n/a 12v.

I spose you can start with the normal areas:
Head
Cams
bigger valves

High comp pistons
stronger rods
knife edged crank
all lighten and balanced

Bigger T/B or ITBs.

Full exhuast system.

Bigger injectors
fuel rail
and then after market ECU + extra wiring

All this would add up very quick and still not be a "super fast" car.

[mk3pete]

Of the powerful VR6 on this forum:

mk3pete: home built
Alex: as mentioned above built by JHH
There was a VR6 built I think in Sydney that now belongs to Brett at Volkspower (circuit car)
Steve old white VR6: loon built the motor
Seb: pretty sure sbe is building a N/A screamer on ITB's

But as many people have mentioned its not cheap or easy to get power from an n/a 12v.

I spose you can start with the normal areas:
Head
Cams
bigger valves

High comp pistons
stronger rods
knife edged crank
all lighten and balanced

Bigger T/B or ITBs.

Full exhuast system.

Bigger injectors
fuel rail
and then after market ECU + extra wiring

All this would add up very quick and still not be a "super fast" car.

i wouldnt say home built matey the major work was done by volkwerke, gearbox and assembly of head chains etc
RG baker rebuilt the head highly recommended
the rest was me

[mk3pete]

i will say though atm im making 181 whp on a tired 200000km old bottom end

[HaydEn]

i will say though atm im making 181 whp on a tired 200000km old bottom end

268's, schrick manifold and exhaust (ported manifolds) is 187whp.

In the states but.

I'm definitely not expecting cheap, but you can buy a eurospec BVH, that has no internal porting for $850. This particular head made 230whp on itb's and standalone.

There's also the WRD head or $1800 that includes o/s valves and internal work.

What I was tossing up is euro spec, or just send my spare head away to get hacked up.

[Jarred]

Aren't you selling your VR??

Aren't you going turbo?

[HaydEn]

Yeah.

But I looked out the door today and saw it.. Realistically I won't sell it.

Still trying to find a suitable car to turbo.

[Jarred]

Why not turbo the car that you already have?

Didn't you just spend a whole lot of coin putting a fresher engine in, and building with the box with a diff etc?

[HaydEn]

Yes. That's correct. But I think the body is one that should be preserved not turned into something so 'extreme'

[Jarred]

Apart from maybe hacking up the front bar for an intercooler, I don't see how turboing it will 'ruin' the body.. :S ??

Quite frankly, its only a mk 3 Golf. If it was a scirocco, corrado etc, I could understand, but mk 3's are dime a dozen almost.

[Bug_racer]

I could write a university thesis on why you shouldnt bother with a 12V VR6 N/A unless you want to go racing in a class that doesnt allow 24V but its all down to $

Firstly stop reading about what power Americans have made with their 12Vs . They have a different ECU's and in general thier dynos read a lot higher . They are also very brutal in their drag racing compared to us . Sammy is the only one who could run times close to theirs by also being brutal on the launch to get the time .

If you have to do a 12V N/A , Id budget $15k on the long engine alone
Bore it and stroke it . Most important thing to make it last is getting the balance factor right in the crank . I am yet to hear what Devins motor was , so Im thinking it was never balanced correctly and in time like many motors Ive heard about it will rattle itself to death above 7500rpm . Rods arent needed , High comp pistons would be ideal , as is a steel headgasket , extractors with long runners (not the ebay ones , custom made units) , once you go over 8000rpm everything becomes more crucial , especially headwork and flow . Then you have to tune it all .

Instead you can buy an R32 engine , fit lugtronic stand alone and make 50 more hp without even trying for less money .

Food for thought