coilover experience.

[Jarred]

I thought I'd share my afternoons experience with everyone here, mainly for the benefit of those running hottuning/raceland/technix etc coilovers.

I've read a couple times on vortex that removing the helper springs will make the ride less bouncy, more comfortable and you'll be able to run lower.

well.

it doesn't.

I removed the helper springs from the front only and test drove on a few of the bumpier "repaired" sections of road around my house, and well, i felt sick after about 2 mins driving. the ride became much worse imo, and became really bouncy.

wether or not having the helper springs in the back made a negative effect on the ride, i dont know, but it can't have been much.

basically. if you were considering removing helper springs to run move comfy, i dont' recommend it at all. there's alot more lean in the suspension, and my driveshaft hit more times in 3 mins, than in 3 months with the helper springs in.

I did adjust the coils slightly, but realistically, I think that removal of the helper springs gave 5-10mm lower stance, not worth it imo at all!

hth

Jarred

[gotrice]

Thanks for that. I just got some raceland coilovers. They are just too cheap to pass up. Any tips on putting them in beforei start?

[Jarred]

depends on if you've changed suspension before. Wind the coils to about 70mm on the front and 30ishmm on the back, that'll give you a nice low stance. if you want to be one of the cool kids, wind them down to 40-50mm at the front and all the way down at the back. careful though, the driveshaft will hit at that height for sure.

[rayray086]

I thought helpers don't affect suspension? I've always though their role was to have the springs seated to the top seat when the car is jacked up (i.e. no load on the suspension)? I took my helpers out and I could compress them with my hands, so I find it hard to believe that it would affect the ride at all...

How low is your car? Could be just bottoming out that's making the ride bad?

[Jarred]

Ray thought the same as you about helper springs. I did actually wind the coils up after i took the helpers out, to make sure i didn't bottom out, but i don't think that worked. (i hope that makes sense, i'm rather tired atm!)

i also noticed whilst under my car today, that i have scratches on my sump, subframe, floor and exhaust. oopsy.

[scoob02]

Hi Jarred

How would u found the HT coilovers so far?

Tempted to get a set

Cheers

[roccodingo]

the ride became much worse imo, and became really bouncy.

Hi Jarred, good to see some Research and thinking ( development to come ??) going on here...

This part of your observation is telling me that the valving in the shock is not working correctly, However correct valving is a function of spring rate and loading. So maybe taking out the "helper" spring is causing this bounce or the shock dampening function is failing.

Prob be a good idea if you can to have a coilover assessed on a shock test machine with and without the helper spring and get a quantatative result. Will make an interesting read thats for sure.

keep up the what if approach, makes for an interesting story if all else.

[revnit]

I run hottuning/raceland coilovers i removed the helper springs for wheel clearance in the front gives you more freedom for wide wheels and camber adjustment just thought id add that to this thread

i didnt notice a difference with my helpers out im my car, the coilovers come with a couple bump stops if you go low enough it will sit on bump stops take them out and try again

[gldgti]

you guys are crazy.

the spring rate of the keeper spring is low, true, however it plays an important role. see, it might not be in use when the car is sitting on its wheels, flat (could be completely coil bound) but as you go over and bump and the suspension extends, it helps the suspension to extend as load is removed from that wheel, as the main spring, being so hard, cannot extend very far. furthermore, it will help control the load up of that strut again as weight goes back on, since the sppring will resist the loading a little.

maybe i'm just getting old (okay, i am, holy crap im nearly 24) but running too low just causes soooooo many problems.

[Jarred]

you guys are crazy.

the spring rate of the keeper spring is low, true, however it plays an important role. see, it might not be in use when the car is sitting on its wheels, flat (could be completely coil bound) but as you go over and bump and the suspension extends, it helps the suspension to extend as load is removed from that wheel, as the main spring, being so hard, cannot extend very far. furthermore, it will help control the load up of that strut again as weight goes back on, since the sppring will resist the loading a little.

maybe i'm just getting old (okay, i am, holy crap im nearly 24) but running too low just causes soooooo many problems.

yea that's what I reckon is going on. i think the spring comes off the 'base'and causing the extra uncomfort. cause the main spring does actually act like a chopped spring, in that, it doesn't always connect with bottom and top housing when going over a bump (at extension) but the helper spring helps the main spring remain in constant contact, which i think makes it more 'comfortable'

Re whoever asked: I don't find the HT too bad, I guess i'm fairly used to it. it's mainly just quite stiff. if you drive on lots of repaired bad roads, i wouldn't recommend them, but for the most part they're not too bad. they do go really low. and dont ride as bad in newer model cars. much safer than super chopped springs i guess.

Grant, I'm not sure quite what you're saying. I don't think there is anything wrong with the suspension/shockers themselves (in terms of damage). the suspension is pretty new, & there's been no change in ride quality with the helper springs back in.
EDIT: re-read a couple times, i get it now. I don't think i'll be getting it tested. It's just something taht I've read was meant to help, and felt like trying (gaining first hand experience) for once. I don't think there will be much further development on this. bar replacing the shocks, which isn't going to happen

Revnit: i don't see how you gained extra clearnace, as the helper spring and the main coil are the same outer diameter. unless you run your coils rather 'high' with lots of thread left for adjustment..??

[Preen59]

you guys are crazy.

the spring rate of the keeper spring is low, true, however it plays an important role. see, it might not be in use when the car is sitting on its wheels, flat (could be completely coil bound) but as you go over and bump and the suspension extends, it helps the suspension to extend as load is removed from that wheel, as the main spring, being so hard, cannot extend very far. furthermore, it will help control the load up of that strut again as weight goes back on, since the sppring will resist the loading a little.

maybe i'm just getting old (okay, i am, holy crap im nearly 24) but running too low just causes soooooo many problems.

This is pretty much exactly what i was going to say.

Basically, when there's a dip in the road, the helper spring extends the shock to follow the road. This makes the ride smoother. It's not very stiff, so it doesn't (or shouldn't) affect the rebound during cornering much at all, but helps over bumps in day to day running. Otherwise when you go over a dip, the wheel doesn't extend down far enough and becomes unweighted, followed by it coming "crashing" down to the road (with the full corner weight on top of it) and onto the fairly hard main spring. That's what makes the ride feel harsh. Well, one of the reasons anyway..

[Spyda]

As far as i know the only reason to take the helper spring out is to to get that extra 2" lower. I thought it was prity plane and simple, the shorter distance your shock can travel the worse your ride is.

[gldgti]

the results are plain and simple - but the reasons behind the results are far from it

[Jarred]

the results are plain and simple - but the reasons behind the results are far from it

yea, pretty much I just wanted to share the experience, just incase anyone else had ever wondered.

Dado, it didn't go 2" lower at all man. made bugger all and didly squat differnce to the height. Deffo not worth the compromise of bad ride quality.

[Spyda]

yea, pretty much I just wanted to share the experience, just incase anyone else had ever wondered.

Dado, it didn't go 2" lower at all man. made bugger all and didly squat differnce to the height. Deffo not worth the compromise of bad ride quality.

I ment by taking out the helper you can twist the coilovers that 2" lower. Where as the limit before was the helper plus the spacer plus the spring, with it removed it would the just the spring and you would gain whatever the helper was when its compressed.