How do you Rebuild a 16v

[ausgolfer]

ha ha I did miss read, sorry must be getting tired

and the modified chainwheel allows u to use the differently timed echaust cam in the place of the inlet cam.

[GoLfMan]

ahh awesome...
so the cam set up in a 16v is good enough already that getting a set of high lift cams for it is not that usefull?

[ausgolfer]

well the standard cams in the KR are good but the intake has slightly less lift than the exhaust, hence this mod that many including I am doing, and they should be good for upwards of 180hp(in a 2L must be said) if you went all out with exhaust and porting.

[Valver.]

Hey Valver, I know you've had ABF's in the last 2 cars but do you know where I could find 83mm or 83.5mm pistons for a KR? All the aftermarket 16v pistons I could find were for 9a's or ABF's, except for the ones TSR used to sell in the 1.8KR to 1.9KR rebuild kit

Wössner make them --> http://www.woessner-kolben.de

They're all listed in 12.7:1 spec, but they make anything - they're forged and expensive, though - 178 Euros each:


VW Golf 2 GTI 1.8 Ltr. 16V 9029D050 KR 82 12.7:1 10.0:1 4 0.08 mm 820XSY WP052 CW20 178
VW Golf 2 GTI 1.8 Ltr. 16V 9029D100 KR 82,5 12.7:1 10.0:1 4 0.08 mm 825XSY WP052 CW20 178
VW Golf 2 GTI 1.8 Ltr. 16V 9029D125 KR 82,75 12.7:1 10.0:1 4 0.08 mm 827XSY WP052 CW20 178
VW Golf 2 GTI 1.8 Ltr. 16V 9029D150 KR 83 12.7:1 10.0:1 4 0.08 mm 830XSY WP052 CW20 178
VW Golf 2 GTI 1.8 Ltr. 16V 9029D200 KR 83,5 12.7:1 10.0:1 4 0.08 mm 835XSY WP052 CW20 178
VW Golf 2 GTI 1.8 Ltr. 16V 9029DA KR 81,5 12.7:1 10.0:1 4 0.08 mm 815XSY WP052 CW20 178

Mahle will make the same pistons in cast, but youd have to enter an enquiry locally. The Aus. dealer is:

MAHLE Engine Components Australia Pty Ltd.
2 - 8 Oxford Rd
3026 Laverton North, Melbourne

Phone +61 (0) 3-83 68-18 88
Fax +61 (0) 3-83 68-18 04

[Valver.]

ahh awesome...
so the cam set up in a 16v is good enough already that getting a set of high lift cams for it is not that usefull?

If you get a KR code engine and not a PL. The PL only has 123hp, vs 139 (often closer to 150) in the KR.

The inlet cam is really soft on the PL.

Regrinding the cams can't help the lift much - it can only lenthen the opening duration. It's not much good going overboard with cams on a 16v unless the head is really nicely done -> been there, and learnt that very quickly!

Remember you also need a better gearbox, clutch setup and flywheel, so that has to be factored in.

EDIT: re the fuel injection swap: it's going to be much easier to convert to EFI, compared to sourcing the parts for CIS. Not only will it run smoother and perform better, it's also cheaper to do. There are so many guides online about putting MegaSquirt'n'Spark standalone in a Mk1 16v that you could do it yourself and input the map easily.

If you buy it from Patatron.com, especially.

I'm really happy with my EFI setup - it uses a diesel tank and lines, which I pressure flushed; a VL turbo and pierberg fuel pump setup and a swirl pot. Using the pre-pump meant I have a pre-filter before it and also another main filter to protect the VL pump. It was expensive, but you could be done for much less if you wanted to

[GoLfMan]

cheers Valver you are a bible of info when it comes to 16v's!!!
atm i have a 8v in my shed thats in need of a valve grind and a re sleeve in one cylinder. So its a choice between building that right up (going nuts on porting and polishing etc) and putting it on the dellortoe (sitting in my shed too) exhaust and cam.
or forking out some dough and get a bung 16v and going nuts with that in terms of porting and polishing, cams, exhaust, etc....
which would i be better doing? i was thinkin build the 8v first for experience, then move onto the 16v when i buy a new car and take the mk1 off the road for a Club car.
Let us know which would be a better option

[Oneofthegreats]

Not to put a downer on anything but.

Factor in how much you want to spend first & then double it!

Buy a 16V, rebuild it, modify it(pistons, cams, valve springs, port work machining, balancing etc.), clutch, flywheel, gearbox, quaife/peloquin LSD, fuel injection, exhaust system & then add misc like brakes, suspension. Just for starter's & there's heaps more I left out too.

$10K + Easy!!

[GoLfMan]

now mate i never said anything about pistons , its just gunna be a rebuilt 16v that im porting and polishing myself! but as i said it doesnt all have to come at once, also i stated that im not going on cost, cos there aint no such thing as cheap performance....

[Valver.]

Tim's right with that. I've assumed you'd be rebuilding it to factory spec, though?

[If not, I still have a built ABF block here, which has done 2,500kms and I'd consider selling for the right price - ].

The headwork is really expensive - a couple of grand for a proper job - so it's best to avoid it if it means you make sacrifices with the bottom end rebuild. It's also best to avoid budget stuff, as I learnt last year :s

You're boosting power by about 70% anyway, so remember how much difference that'll make (!!!). There are several KR Mk1s I've read about in the UK with just headwork and nice exhausts running well into the 5's to 100km/h. Even a genuine GTI takes 8 seconds. It's all pretty quick in a tinny, little car on a public road.

If I was in your position, I'd buy Loon's most beaten 16v, wrap it up and leave it in the corner and uncover it when you have the time and money to do it properly, and have also learnt the ropes building a nice 8v (which you could even sell on later to fund the 16v).

You can also upgrade the brakes and suspension in the meantime and gather bits and pieces as they pop up on eBay. I'm working on a little engine at the moment, which I'll keep under wraps until next year, but it's costing me bugger all just because I'm hunting in the right places for high quality parts.

The VWVortex classifieds are fantastic for 16v parts. There are SO many people on there that buy stuff brand new and just never use it.

Just hunt around and see what you can find. If you have the 16v motor as a secondary concern, you can afford (no pun intended!) to be patient and buy bits and pieces as they come up

It's still good fun to strip a motor down and polish and paint all the parts in the mean time.

Just think about the end result

[Valver.]

now mate i never said anything about pistons , its just gunna be a rebuilt 16v that im porting and polishing myself! but as i said it doesnt all have to come at once, also i stated that im not going on cost, cos there aint no such thing as cheap performance....

As they say:

"Cheap, fast, reliable; you can only choose two" lol!

[h100vw]

Having done the modified mk1 thing 1800-2000 and 16V. I would go with a 16 valve conversion over a worked 8v. You start with minimum 140bhp, where you need to magic up from 112.

This involves head work and a cam. Quoting TSR prices, a big valve head was 600 quid plus and a cam about 200 quid. You need to be running headers of some kind and an exhaust. that might get you over 150 which would be produced from a std 16v with one cam and headers. essentially a completely std engine, providing you can get everthing in one go it can be done for less money than the 8V. Make sure you get the big inlet manifold too, 50mm one. it is said that the 50mm loses in the mid range compared to the smaller one. I have driven both back to back in mk2 Golfs and there is no midrange loss and plenty of top end gain.

I don't think that K-jet is that bad at all, just read up on it first. The only restriction is the timing isn't adjustable without using a piggy back system. I had a Racelogic VSAM on a 16 V Corrado and this made a big difference. (If anyone sees one for sale, I have the software and a load of maps for it. You program it with a serial lead).

I have to admit that the ABF is a cracking motor, 150bhp std, throttle response is epic and 175 is achieveable with a chip. Again a bog std motor internally.


Do the KR and do it right once. I doubt it'll need 10K unless you fly to Europe to pick the bits up.
Gavin


EDIT forgot about the 2 litre 9A 16v which can be chipped, it has lambda control.

[GoLfMan]

Cheers Gavin

[Water Boy]

8v or 16v

I would do what Valver say's build up the 8v that you currently have with the Dellortoe and some other goodies...

I'm assuming your on your P's and HP can lead you into some harsh situations, i'm only 15 and a Mk1 8v does me fine at Phillip Island with awsome brakes and good suspension... Motor wise P&P head, balanced bottom end and a good exhaust sucking throw a side draught webber and some un-none cam

To go fast you gotta stop so there's brakes and suspension. A gearbox and diff to get the power to the ground...

Get your set up right, suspension, brakes, gearbox, diff, wheels and tyres and then put the fully worked 16v which you have built up properly over time...

This is my opinion and i just hope it helps you out...

Cheers James

P.S Go the 8v

[GoLfMan]

yeh im definately going to build up the 8v, because i would rather learn on that than on a 16v.
definately going to get my set up correct with extra go you have to have extra stop and turning abilities are a must!!!
cheers for your input

[Water Boy]

Sweet good idea... Make sure you give us an update of your engine/car rebuild

Cheers James