Sump level rise 2010 103TDI PD

[Skooter]

I'm back - and I'm mad as ...

Car has now done about 4k since service, with new oil (filled to correct level). While things looked real dandy at 1k, I'm now convinced the level is on the rise. Not sure exactly where to go from here.

It's difficult to gauge exactly how much extra 'oil' I've got in the sump based solely on the dipstick (why is it black??? Black oil, black dipstick - designed by a dipstick!? ). Even after a trip to Adelaide (from Melbourne) where the car ran beautifully and returned 5.3L/100 on the MFD, the oil level is up the stick a good 5mm from std when I last checked at 1k post-service. Could even be 6L by now. Without dumping $75 worth of oil after only 4k, I have no way of knowing exactly how much is gone up.

So now I can only assume fuel contamination, and my strong suspicion is cylinder leakdown of diesel from regens (possibly incomplete regens?). My partner does a few more short city trips than I would like and I suspect that if regens are occurring, they are incomplete. The first 1k post-service (when the level remained static) were travelled over longer trips at higher speeds, but still predominantly city driving.

Noone has answered my question as to how to know when a regen is happening - any takers? Apart from that, I need to know how to prevent it happening if it's going to dilute that fancy 507 oil. Am I going to have to drain and fill every 4k with new oil??!

Next stop is Skoda Oz and Richmond Skoda, once I'm positive it's rising and probably not due to a double fill when serviced by them (apology might be forthcoming too!). There's nothing unusual about our car or the way it's driven, so surely this must be commonplace if there's nothing else to explain a sump level rise? Why do I feel like a loner?!

Now what was that about taking bets ...?

[Transporter]

Maybe it should be your first step to see the professional mechanic to get the car properly diagnosed. It's hard to do so from reading the posts without seeing the car.
The leaking injector (s) could be the cause as well as frequent regenerations due to the fault or DPF that is blocked. The ECU is programmed to regenerate the DPF approx. every 1000km or when it's needed measured using the sensors. Usually the fault in the sensor would set the fault light in the instruments. The leaking injectors should be easy to diagnose for average mechanic equipped with the suitable scanner.

Also check for any chip box installed by the previous owner, since this can also cause the excessive fuel being injected.

[Skooter]

Thanks for the advice, T'porter. Definitely my next move is to have an experienced VW diesel mech go over it and try to identify what's going on. The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned. I take no joy in the knowledge that my expensive, super-special VW approved oil is possibly more like WD40!

[gldgti]

I can only agree with Transporter - get it scanned by someone who can interpret well. Its plausible that there is a sensor issue causing regens that shouldn't be happening (although your good fuel economy would seem to make that more unlikely).

[gldgti]

The leaking injectors should be easy to diagnose for average mechanic equipped with the suitable scanner.

Looking at what precisely? Injector duty cycle?

[kaanage]

Did you get the oil that you changed out, tested?

[Skooter]

Did you get the oil that you changed out, tested?

I didn't go down that path until I was sure there hadn't been a double fill. I still have the oil in clean containers, so might run the test suggested by ? (brain fade) and see what evaporation tells me. Almost irrelevant now though, as I know it had 4.3L of oil in it when I serviced it. It can only be diesel running the level up the stick.

Primo task is to find out whether it's:

a. regen overload (flushing down through cylinder walls)
b. a leaking tandem pump (unlikely after 2 years from new - assuming this has been happening for quite some time before I even bought the car)
c. leaking injectors (as per #a.)

I have to decide whether to chase Skoda Oz (or Skoda Richmond, who sold and serviced the car before I bought it), as this is definitely a prob dating back to the warranty period) or cut my losses and get an indy to look at it. Obviously praying it's a simple fix.

[Skooter]

Looking at what precisely? Injector duty cycle?

Showing my ignorance here. Duty cycle? Wouldn't a leaking injector be a straightforward check for pressure drop? Or does leakage occur when it's running (ie between injection cycles)? And is it something that happens when the engine is not running?

It does seem odd that I'm getting great fuel econ, but I guess 2L lost (down into the sump) in 4k ain't that noticeable.

[Transporter]

If it's not the regeneration problem caused by faulty sensor and the DPF id still usable? It won't be a simple fix. The DPF can be worn out (used up) in relatively short time/distance, so longer you put it of, the greater the chance that it won't regenerate.

[gldgti]

Showing my ignorance here. Duty cycle? Wouldn't a leaking injector be a straightforward check for pressure drop? Or does leakage occur when it's running (ie between injection cycles)? And is it something that happens when the engine is not running?

It does seem odd that I'm getting great fuel econ, but I guess 2L lost (down into the sump) in 4k ain't that noticeable.

The injectors are electronically actuated, and one of the things you can read with a VCDS system is the duty cycle or injection qty per cycle.

For the older Pump Deuse diesels leakage is not really feasible, as the injector is moslty mechanical and will only be able to pump fuel for a portion of the pistons cycle.

But, the commonrail engines (I assume) would be able to leak at any time during the pistons cycle if there was a mechanical fault with the injector.

However, I was sort of under the impression that a fault of this kind would be detectable by the ECU (as the actuators signal would be strange if the injector was in a position to leak) and put the car into limp mode - this all my understanding based on my own experience and what I've read - but since Transporter mentioned about diagnosing a leaking injector I thought I would ask - "How?!"

Anyway, as to your fuel economy - what I mean is that if the ECU was attempting to do regenerations on the DPF often, this would impact adversely on your fuel economy.

No, a couple of litres over a few thousand would not be noticeable in your fuel economy.

[Transporter]

The injectors are electronically actuated, and one of the things you can read with a VCDS system is the duty cycle or injection qty per cycle.

For the older Pump Deuse diesels leakage is not really feasible, as the injector is moslty mechanical and will only be able to pump fuel for a portion of the pistons cycle.

But, the commonrail engines (I assume) would be able to leak at any time during the pistons cycle if there was a mechanical fault with the injector.

However, I was sort of under the impression that a fault of this kind would be detectable by the ECU (as the actuators signal would be strange if the injector was in a position to leak) and put the car into limp mode - this all my understanding based on my own experience and what I've read - but since Transporter mentioned about diagnosing a leaking injector I thought I would ask - "How?!"

Anyway, as to your fuel economy - what I mean is that if the ECU was attempting to do regenerations on the DPF often, this would impact adversely on your fuel economy.

No, a couple of litres over a few thousand would not be noticeable in your fuel economy.

Worn out injector(s) could be in the right position and be dripping the fuel in. Regardless, his car should go to the proper workshop to be diagnosed properly. Otherwise it's just speculating.

[gldgti]

Worn out injector(s) could be in the right position and be dripping the fuel in. Regardless, his car should go to the proper workshop to be diagnosed properly. Otherwise it's just speculating.

I agree - but - this forums primary purpose is as a knowledge repository. If you have some knowlege about how to diagnose the injectors, why not share it so that someone might make use of that in the future?

I am not trying to diagnose the OP's car over the internet - I want to know how to diagnose an injector fault with VCDS. Can you tell me?

[Johnnojack]

I'm still tipping leaking fuel pump. If the injectors were leaking wouldn't most of the extra fuel be causing smoke? Yet it is reportedly running fine. I haven't had one apart myself but diesel leaking into the tappet cover from the pump should be a bit obvious when the cover is removed, not a huge job either.

[kaanage]

So any conclusion to this...?

[Skooter]

So any conclusion to this...?

Reporting back after many months. After discussion (unsuccessful) with Richmond Skoda re possible warranty claims, I emailed Skoda and had a call from VAG and was given a warranty case #.

After I was sure the sump level had again risen I contacted them and they approved my taking it to a Skoda dealer for inspection. Preston Motors, Epping did the work. Check over engine. Drain oli, measure (5L - so a little over) & refill. Inspection on dipstick after a week and all OK (though the level after they filled with 4.3L was what I thought was high - when I serviced I used most of a 5L container and it wasn't up to the bulbous part of the dipstick - should be 4.7L with filter housing drained). Anyways, three or four weeks later (and some long trips) they did a drain & weigh and said it hadn't moved. Another dipstick check 2 weeks later.

Their conclusion: absolutely no doubt that Richmond had double-filled it. They couldn't find any faults with the fuel or pump system. So I'm breathing easy and have the safety net of their inspection should prem failure of the DPF occur. Car is running an absolute treat - as it has since the day we got it.

Pretty happy with the service I received from VAG and Preston Motors - but I'll still be doing all my own fluid and filter changes!!