Warming up a diesel?

[jets]

your friend is right, you need to use the right oil only available at dealers unfortunately. its around 80$ for 5L plus 18$ for the filter and a few bucks for the sump bolt. as long as you use the right oil and filter theres no reason not to change the oil between services its what i do.

I wouldn't change the oil more often than recommended unless your conditions are severe. With the new low sulpher fuels & synthetic oil be guided by VW. If you change twice as often, get on the calculater & see how your costs will blow out over your ownership period. Most original owners sell their cars before they wear them out.

[gregozedobe]

do you also recommend changing oil at 5000?

my friend has a toyota prado (diesel) and says that the oils are specific and special, so i shouldn't change them before the service schedule tells me to... i'm not quite sure if this is accurate- as you can tell, i don't know much about engines at all so this forum's collective brain and experience really helps!

Glad to help. Remember that internet opinions are like @rseholes, everyone's got one Just think about what everyone is saying and what makes sense to you before doing anything radical based on what you read. Most of the advice you read here is good.

In europe they allow VW TDIs to be set up for variable "long life" sevicing. If driven gently they can go up to 30,000Km between oil changes. I think this is a bit too long for my confidence levels. Unless you drive hard, in dusty conditions, lots of stop-start driving or mainly short trips (where the engine is frequently running at below normal temps) the Oz recommendation of 15,000Km/12 months (whichever is sooner) is best for most people.

There is a body of opinion that says you are wasting your money changing a good oil very frequently (ie every 5,000Km), and that oil actually "improves" for the first 3-4,000Km. I'm not sure of the theory, but if you want to get really overloaded with information have a look at the oils and lubrication threads on here - http://forums.tdiclub.com/

Quite a few people recommend an early "first" oil change on the basis of it getting rid of any particles of unwanted stuff left over from the engine manufacturing processes. I did my new T5 TDI at 7,500km, but my next engine will probably get changed at 1,500Km, then again at 15,000Km, 30,000Km etc. (or 12 monthly if I'm doing low mileage each year).

ONLY USE THE CORRECT SPECIFICATION OIL IN A MODERN VW ENGINE ! (and it doesn't matter whether it is a diesel or a petrol engine). Look in the owner's manual, and double check on whoever is doing the changes (and yes, even official VW dealers have been known to get it wrong).

As mentioned, the right oil can be pretty pricey, so if you need to save money I'd prefer to change at the factory intervals with the correct oil rather than use a cheaper (non-specification) oil at more frequent intervals. This (frequent oil changes) used to be a good strategy 10 or 20 years ago, but modern engines, particularly diesels, have very specific requirements and won't tolerate oils of lesser quality like older engines did).

JMHO, others may (and do) disagree.

[jets]

I have read somewhere that all the engines are test run before installation at the factory & my guess is that process would include a flush. My brother in law worked at GMH in the auto trans plant during the 70s or 80s, & every trans was test run & connected to an external oil supply & filtering system. This of course cleaned out any residual swarf etc from the previous machining processes.
This would explain why the first oil change is 15000km. With my new TDI my first oil change was at 7500km because thats all I travelled in the first year.

[en13]

alright, so by the sounds of it, i can probably get away with changing oil when the car tells me to...

i do a lot of short trips- less than 10kms so my oil change might be earlier than other's! do short trips matter if the car is run in? i'm at the running in stage so i'm trying to extend the trips if possible but i do feel a bit silly going the longest way possible to my destinations!

[jets]

When you buy a car, the car works for you not the other way round. Just drive as per normal, don't go the long way & adjust your oil change intervals to suit the conditions you are operating under.

[Greg Roles]

Can any 2.0 TDI owners tell me what oil the car is delivered with?

I'm basically trying to work out if it's synthetic or not, for I am planning a specific run in of my about to be picked up GT TDI. This is my first diesel, and I've much to learn, but ring seal is universal, and would seem to me to be even more important as compression rises. My outgoing car, a FPV v8 was specifically run in on Penrite run in oil, and the results have been great, both in fuel economy, real world performance, lack of oil use, and dyno numbers. I'm currently talking to Penrite about it's suitability for the particle filter, and the turbo. In any case, I want to run the car in on a mineral base oil for the first 500-800kms.

To get back to the thread topic, wouldn't more frequent oil changes in a diesel be both becasue of the thermo cycling from the turbo, and the amount of blowby and thus carbon ending up in the oil?

[gregozedobe]

In any case, I want to run the car in on a mineral base oil for the first 500-800kms. ?

I very strongly suggest that you do more research before you decide whether do this or not . I'm not trying to go all "keyboard warrior" on you here, but help you avoid what could end up being a very expensive decision if things go wrong for you.

I agree with you about the importance of good ring seal, just not on the best way to get it.

VW engines are very, very fussy about what type of oil gives suitable protection to the cams and followers, and their diesels are prone to failures in this area if lubrication is anything less than perfect (something to do with the high loadings on the PD type cams). The americans have a web site (TDI club) where all the obsessives gather to discuss the "perfect" oil for their TDIs, and even there the idea of a special mineral running-in oil doesn't have much support. They don't expect to get maximum compression figures from their TDI engines until about 50,000 miles, so the "running-in period for rings lasts a long, long time.

At the very least, if you have any engine-related problems (including turbo, water-pump, cams, fuel-pump etc) you could expect VWA to deny any warranty claim if they get even the slightest hint that you have run your car on a non-VW specification oil. And remember it is possible to test oils and find traces of oil that was previously used (after an oil change or two).

To get back to the thread topic, wouldn't more frequent oil changes in a diesel be both becasue of the thermo cycling from the turbo, and the amount of blowby and thus carbon ending up in the oil?

I understood the biggest problem with short trips was the engine was spending much of its time running at less than optimum temperatures, which means the clearances aren't quite right, the oil pressure isn't at full pressure everywhere, the oil hasn't warmed up so isn't flowing as well as when it is warm, and especially the ECU is running a bit rich so producing more soot and other contaminants for the oil.

Sort of the opposite of taxis which last forever because they are always warmed up, never cold.

Certainly if I had a TDI which was doing lots of short trips I would be changing the oil at 7,500Km or 6 months.

JMHO, others may differ (so please don't take offence)

[Greg Roles]

Dude, no offence at all, I'm here to learn. I know f-all about diesels, never having owned one, and even less about VW's, so I am totally open to points of view. It's why I am here!

So thankyou for your reply!

My only concern is running a car in on synthetic oil. Sure it'll be fine, but on several engines, both car and motorbike I've gotten great results each time with the specific motoman-usa style run in. I'm just keen to do it again if I can. I've yet to end up with an engine that wasn't over performing in both power and economy, which is tough to live with

The particle filter is making it a hard thing though, Penrite have said their specific run in oil has a high ash, and will therefore block the filter in the very least. Add to that a turbo, and the valvetrain factors you mention above and yeah, I've a lot to consider.

I've just added to this post after two hours of mind warping oil related reading from TDI club, and yeah.... I see your point....

Basically I'm screwed because of the high ash in run in oils - blocking the particle filter - and affecting any warranty, and the high forces from the high leverage action of the diesel cam followers, due to the physical constraints imposed by the injection system. Seems the very specific oils are required, and synthetic, for both the turbo and cam followers specifically.

I wonder if that's why run in is taking so long? It would follow that a syn oil would lead to extended run in........

OK, there has to be a "lower" syn 505.01 oil out there????

What does the GT TDI manual recommend anyway???

I'm screwed aren't I?

[Greg Roles]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for the input. I have much to learn, and have come a long way in the last few hours alone. I have square eyes!!

I've satisfied myself that you are indeed correct. The general opinion is that there is indeed a semi syn oil delivered in the car specifically to aid the run in process, so I agree those sneaky Germans have thought of this, and won't be messing with the oils. Seems the switch to the full synthetic 507? happens at the first service. The brochuse says the GT is a PD, so I now understand the valvetrain requirements for a high shear synthetic oil, and all I need to satisfy myself now is that my dealer does indeed use this better oil at service time, and not a "good enough" equivalent.

Thanks for the responses, and understanding my misunderstanding. I'll get this diesel thing downpat yet!

[Greg Roles]

Hi Victor,

Thanks again, these tips are very valuable to me, as I am all about looking after the new toy. I see the value in an oil temp guage, and my outgoing car had both oil temp and pressure which is what I lived by rather than coolant temp.

What is this I read about the variable vanes on the turbo getting stuck?

[gldgti]

Stop Posting

GUYS!

Sorry, but the reason this thread was stickied was to be useful to new users about the topic in the subject heading. On basic issues, I am attempting to make a few stickied threads which are related to commonly asked questions.

If you want to ask a new question - GREAT! but please, please do it in a new thread, or one related - this thread about warming up your diesel is not related to a discussion about what oil to use - thats in many other threads.

Thanks very much. I don't mean to cause offense - your discussion here about oils and run in here is a good one - informed, intelligent, good natured - as such it deserves a place where others will find it in a search. I just want you to know whats going on.

Cheers,
Aydan (mod)

[Logzy]

What is this I read about the variable vanes on the turbo getting stuck?

They can "soot" up and get stuck if you dont rev the engine enough to blow all the crap through.
This is why there is alot of information reccomending that the engine is revved to 2500 when cold to prevent the soot build up when cold.

2500 does sound a little high to me on a cold engine but thats whats being reccomended so thats what I'll be doing when i get mine.

I'm also anul about running my new TDI in properly and looking after it to ensure the veins dont clog up.
From all the reading i have done, 2.5 months worth, I think i will be driving it hard when i get mine.

I'm going from a tuned VXII Clubsport to a GT Sport TDI DSG.

[origin]

Hi Logzy,

Other people are thinking I am a maniac driver.. coz I need to keep up with my rev all the time..

it is TDI....

[sixtyniners]

when you drive fast, and you produce lots of boost, the exhasut gas temperature goes right up. this makes the turbine very hot, which then soaks through into the turbocharger bearings.

while the engine is running, you're ok because the oil keeps pumping through the bearings. but if you have been hard at it, and you stop the engine, the oil flow stops but the heat saoks through the turbine and into the bearings. this makes them hotter than ususal. this puts undue stress on the bearings and shortens theire life.

by allowing a no load scenario, like idleing, you have a period of normal oil flow, and low heat production, allowing the turbocharger temperature to stabilise before cutting off the oil supply. this means that when the engine cools down after shutdown, the bearing will not become any hotter than it was before, and is happy

hi guys im a new owner of a golf 2.0 gt sport tdi built july 08 i was just wondering would it be more simple to put a turbo timer on and let that do the job on cooling down? and i start mine reverse out of the garage then lock up the house b4 driving that gives me some time for things to start to warm up...
ted

[Brom]

A question for the owners of the older diesels. Do you notice a difference when using your cold-start cables. Really my 1500 diesel seems just as happy starting with it in or out and doesnt seems to alter the revs at all. or is it meant to charge the fuel mix?
I'm wondering if it not adjusted correctly, broken or just normal and not really needed in a sydney winter.