Golf V 2.0tdi running on 3?

[harlie]

Hi guys

Dec 2004 2.0TDi DSG @ 126km

The car was taken away on a truck this morning – again.

On the way to work (Wynnum rd 6:45am), noticed a couple of misses, within minute the engine was running really rough, no lights or messages on the dash and it didn’t stop (I turned it off), It’s happy to restart but I’m sure it is running on 3 cylinders (that’s what it feels and sounds like).
No smoke out the back and after 2 restarts still no lights or messages – called a truck who took it to P&P.
We filled with fuel on Tuesday (BP Tingalpa) and it would have travelled about 80km since. It ran fine from home to where the symptoms started which is about 6km.

So – ideas, give me the bad news, VW ownership has taught me there is no good news..

[getjet]

First thing id do is scan for codes. Do you know anyone with vcds? There is a thread of people that may help in the vcds forum of this site.

Is it just a noise or is\was it slower?

my car runs like a dog if I play with the egr and don't delete codes... Could be egr?

[harlie]

Thanks - EGR, let’s hope. I have a vcds cable in the car - but don’t carry a laptop. The car is now at P&P (Prestige + Performance :: Audi Service BMW Service Volkswagen Service & Repairs Brisbane) so no doubt it’s the first thing they do – I really was so crapped off this morning (this is the 5th failure in 18 months – 2nd requiring tow), I just wanted it out of my sight – out of my life really.

As far as symptoms, it literally feels and sounds like its on 3, I’ve had a spark lead fail before resulting in a petrol engine running 1 down and that’s exactly what it felt sounded like. Very rough – whole car shaking at idle especially as clutch was engaging or with a bit of load when I moved it, in neutral lift revs to 22-2500 and it smooths out but that will be flywheel weight ect. Sounds like an old chugger, which doesn’t change with revs…. No smell, no smoke.

The ‘throttle body’ which I assume is the EGR ect was replaced (ridiculous cost) about mid last year. I now read that it can be removed, that correct?

[h100vw]

You can delete the EGR and get the software done to stop the fault light. This has been done to DKNs GT.

Gavin

[harlie]

Spoke to the boys at P&P. No codes. They have only moved the car and (I quote), “It’s definitely a dead cylinder”, have to wait until next week until they can have a look.

Good business to have – VW repairs…

What would drop a cylinder in a 2.0TDi without throwing a code, or blowing smoke? I can think of a couple scary ones…

[Greg Roles]

Injector failure again??

[harlie]

Injector failure again??

yeah Greg, that's pretty much what i keep coming back to;
* a mechanical failure (the pump or solenoid) within the unit injector. or
* Injector Loom. Does anyone know if the ECU checks weather the injector is plugged in and what it does? Given the usual way they identify the faulty injector when they electrically short out, (the engine starts and runs on 3 once the faulty one is unplugged) - I'm not sure what checks the ECU does.

Without smoke, bets are that there's no fuel getting to said pot, other than injector what else would stop fuel getting to 1 cylinder?

Mate trust me, I will be happy if it is, as you know this year I've become used to multi thousand dollar repair bills on the POS. $1500 sounds good compared to some other possibilities that have run through my mind today. A lot cheaper than the full AC replacement earlier this month.

[getjet]

I taught that if an injector fails, you shouldn't be able to start the car?

[Greg Roles]

Only on the Siemens 125kw PD systems. The 103kw Bosch systems run in parallel, Siemens in series, so if one goes the car stops. The 103 will chug home on 3 and just shut down the faulty cylinder.

Harlie, get rid of it, you're having too many problems mate.

[harlie]

I taught that if an injector fails, you shouldn't be able to start the car?

Even with the 125 - that's only if the injector fails electrically - which is 99%+ of failures in VW/Audi, there is a couple ways it can fail that will not be detected by the ECU. Like the pump component - the ECU doesn’t measure fuel pressure after the high pressure pump that is part of the unit injector, if the pump fails, the solenoid or piezo nozzle will still operate but no fuel comes out.

I can confirm from experience that if a 103 injector fails electrically it won't go home, once the ecu detects the problem it shuts down. It started ran the checks then shut down again with messages and lights. Would continue to start but wouldn't run long enough to get it off the street.

Many manufacturers have over time used Unit Injection systems (where the injector is responsible for both pressure generation and fuel injection), in all other makes it is mechanical failures that are the majority cause of problems, and the number of mechanical failures are similar to those experienced in VW/Audi, they just saw very few problems in total. Unfortunately the number of electrical failures in VWs have lead to most thinking they can only fail with ECU knowledge (and shut down).

Current problem is very different, the computer is oblivious to any problems, still doesn't rule out the PD unit injector.

[harlie]

Harlie, get rid of it, you're having too many problems mate.

Mate, we discussed this last time we spoke, I then did nothing and am about to cop a 2nd repair bill - idiot!. I am so cranking with myself that I didn't trade it when the AC problem surfaced , before it was fixed - massive discussion with the Mrs at the time. "Fixing the AC is cheaper than buying a new car ect ect", but when do you cut and run - I think I'm past that signal now. End of the day, at 126ks it's not an old car.

What do I buy? Mrs now wants a 5 door 123d?

[Greg Roles]

Well a quick google doesn't show any apparent injectors issues on the 123's!!

[harlie]

Injector failure again??

Injector #4.

List price is $940 + harness + bolts ect ect, anyone using UK source for parts.

[Greg Roles]

Well you know my thoughts mate, dump and run!

[harlie]

Well, this saga has taken a surprising turn for the better.

For the record - Located injectors ex UK for ₤175 each + 40 shipping which includes return bag.

While at P&P, they started it and moved it around and it finally gave a light, message and logged a fault – yes only one. Pointing towards injector #4 hence my post 13. At this stage the boys at P&P want nothing to do with it – “injectors, VW are now covering them, take it to VW”. I’m thinking yeah right, been there before…

At this point the interesting issue is that it runs fine when cold, I start to doubt the injector theory and take the car home, entertained the idea of driving into a dealer and trading it as is, but it would only run for 5-6 mins. While doing some reading and planning a Saturday assault on it (targeting the Harness) in the garage, I’m convinced by a good friend to take it VW and give them the opportunity to cover the injectors – don’t touch it…. VW dealer at Capalaba is recommended (I will never set foot in Austral again). Before it goes, I do a scan with VCDS and there are now 2 faults, Injector 4 and Injector 1 – and it no longer runs fine when cold…. Drop it off on Friday 5th with instructions for diagnosis, I need something to give VWA and “I’m not paying VWA prices for injectors” – at this point I’m convinced they will just want to replace the high profit items – injectors.

Monday afternoon I get the call. They have the rocker cover off, “because this simply didn’t make sense”… They have found the Harness (VW03G971033L) to be the problem. I send them the paperwork for August last year (new Injector # 2 + harness), and he comes back with Warranty – time and KMs are fine for this! Yee Hah! Car now back together, driven, tested all good. Lucky I didn’t touch it.

Other interesting comment made was about the paper work. Austral were pushing hard for me to replace all 4 injectors last year – why wouldn’t they, have a look at the mark up! This strong recommendation is noted on their paper work, when the bloke at Capalaba notices this, he comments that “Yours is BKD” and its “rare for injector problem on BKD engine” – “don’t know why they would recommend that, it’s not the policy of VWA either”. Last year at Austral, I was “advised” that there was no differences in 2.0tdi injectors – even when I asked specifically about Siemans V Bosch systems, “they are genuine VW” - replace all 4, always.

What’s that saying – Don’t attribute to Malice what can be explained by stupidly. Still trying to convince myself.

Anyways – Big thumbs up for the dealer at Capalaba, the two people on the counter could speak to me at my level and are very knowledgeable on the product – first time I have ever experienced this at a dealership.