Diesel Particulate Filter

[h100vw]

Pm me your email, chassis number and engine code, I'll look it up for you.
Gavin

[Zak]

I've just had the DPF light come on with my 2010 Tiguan with 50k on the clock. I've taken it for a run down the freeway at ~2500rpm to try and clear it (read that in a UK VW forum) but to no avail.

I'm a bit pissed as I love my Volksies and did my research with respect to the diesel over the petrol, but this problem didn't show up for me.

Being a n00b with this plugging in computer to cars stuff I'm not sure where I'm at.... but am I correct in thinking that a regen is effectively a temporary fix? Do we pay the ~$500 to get a few months of joy only to be stung with ~$3000 for a replacement DPF later down the track? Do we regen and just sell the thing? The DPF seems to be such a crock!?

Cheers!

[Umai Naa!!]

Could be something simple like a DPF pressure differential sensor. Having said that, any DPF-related faults need to be diagnosed and repaired ASAP. Prolonged driving with a DPF-related fault present, may damage the DPF.

[Tuning Dynamics]

I've just had the DPF light come on with my 2010 Tiguan with 50k on the clock. I've taken it for a run down the freeway at ~2500rpm to try and clear it (read that in a UK VW forum) but to no avail.

I'm a bit pissed as I love my Volksies and did my research with respect to the diesel over the petrol, but this problem didn't show up for me.

Being a n00b with this plugging in computer to cars stuff I'm not sure where I'm at.... but am I correct in thinking that a regen is effectively a temporary fix? Do we pay the ~$500 to get a few months of joy only to be stung with ~$3000 for a replacement DPF later down the track? Do we regen and just sell the thing? The DPF seems to be such a crock!?

Cheers!

hi,
Definately get the dealership to check the pressure sensors. They have a history of failure in aus, but make sure if it is and they replace it that you argue to have the dpf replaced as its the most common form of dpf failure , ie caused by pressure sensor failures. Even if its able to be regen'd now, make it noted on the service records about the sensor in case you have further issues.

[Greg Roles]

First up, if you ever need to replace a DPF, definately look at ebay UK and europe, I have seen MKV GT TDI ones for $700. You could have the long tailpipe removed to drop shipping costs, you just want the cannister and can weld on your old tailpipe.

I will have replacement cores available before too long, both standard and high flow, allowing a potentially legal "DPF delete" tune ( where you turn the regen operation off but it still removes most of the soot passively ). Removing the DPF entirely is a HUGE fine if caught, especially for tuners, so I won't do it I'm afraid.

That said, if there was no option, then Custom Code still have the only proven delete tune period. I don't care what anyone else claims, even the brand I represent. Only custom code have spent the time to work it out properly, everyone else is using a third party buy in, and I've yet to see one that works properly long term, and I know diesels.

As pointed out, the differential pressure sensor is notorious for playing up, and there is a revised part now, mine played up and I put the new sensor on, being a new part number. VW sells truckloads of them apparently.

The DPF is doing automatic regens when it reaches 40% blockage. You are usually unaware of this apart from the car idling at 1000rpm at times, and it feels a bit "rougher" to drive as boost presures are more aggressive to counter the mostly closed inlet flap during regen.

If the car fails to regen at 40% for whatever reason, usually a number of short trips beyond this point, it continues to fill up till it hits 60% at which point it will put up a warning on the dash "follow instructions" flash the coil light, and show the dpf symbol as it forces a regen. I've taken my car to this point many a time during experimentation, and it easily gets back down to "zero". So at this stage the DPF is a long way from cactus.

If this level fails, and for whatever reason it reaches 80%, the car goes into limp, and you HAVE to visit the dealer for a idle / forced regen, it is dangerous to try a Vag Com induced regen on the car as it *may* catch fire given the blockage and massive regen temps and time. Unlikely though.

As Gav has pointed out, it is unlikely for a DPF to go before 100k, more likely to reach 150k, but if the dealer cannot regen it, and it reaches a certain gram weight of soot ( 40g off the top of my head ) then it is indeed dead, and you need a new core.

Largely the DPF works well, and keeping the car on boost, running a Provent to reduce oil ash, and making sure your car gets some 80kph plus drives for a good 10 mins or so here and there all aid it's lifespan.

I am very aware some people choose to delete it, thing is the car becomes a horrible soot blower, and even the young bucks that have done it are now talking to me about the possible "high flow never clog no regen" DPF core, as that much soot is simply embarassing these days. Once I can prove it works on my car, I will look into the legality of having it produced, and go from there. It's a big task, but one that I believe to be possible. It won't happen in the short term though!!!

[jazd]

That said, if there was no option, then Custom Code still have the only proven delete tune period. I don't care what anyone else claims, even the brand I represent. Only custom code have spent the time to work it out properly, everyone else is using a third party buy in, and I've yet to see one that works properly long term, and I know diesels.

Are you sure this is still the case Greg? I think there are more companies who are capable of doing it now eg. Shark. It is something that I am looking at doing myself at the moment. I have discovered that a lot of companies try to use a program called "ECU Safe" which supposedly automatically removes the DPF functionality from the ECU file (I think this is the buy in you are referring to). In the case of the Siemens PPD ECUs this seems to not work very well. If you read the ECU safe blog they explain that in an updated version of their software they work around the problem by changing the limp mode torque limiters... No thanks

edit. Was just reading some forums tonight and it seems that Shark also "remove" the limp mode.. Maybe CC does this too?

[Greg Roles]

Feel free to be a test bunny, but if DMS and other HUGE comapnies fail long term, well I know who I would be sticking with. Yes I have heard of Shark, but so too who has run their tune for 20,000kms? Plenty of UK tuners offer it, but from all I have read the regen seems to eventually find a way to turn back on.......and that's a disaster!

[MidnightDog]

Feel like I should post a resolution to this thread - ATPG managed to regen my DPF today when I took it into them. It was brutally clogged - 260-something percent above threshold - but they got it down to about 14% or less on the road. Who knows whether it'll happen again, but I'll try to avoid getting a whole new part until it seems absolutely necessary. They also remapped the car - take a look at the tuning section if you want to hear the results of that...

Thanks for everyone's input; I hope Zak's DPF problem gets resolved successfully.

[davidno64]

Hi,

have read your problem. I have had simlar problems and all at a bad time of
seeking ongoing surgery. In fact thats why I bought this car was for my medical
condition and the car allegid reliability.

Anyway Simlar problems and mine started with the fues tank pump. The one
submerged in the diesel. I have a thread on this under Diesels and DPF smoking.
I am at the point of considering legal action against VW. and if so a more the
merryer (power in n umbers). Read my post, see what you think and if your
interested in getting together for fact. Then it minght be worth taking this further.

[MidnightDog]

Bump...

Sigh. I think my DPF has decided that it is, in fact, going to clog up again. Yesterday the particulate light flashed on just for a moment and then disappeared. However, I'm quite sure I can also feel a slight power loss.

No fault of ATPG, obviously - this DPF just seems to be beyond regeneration, unless it's a sensor fault. I'm taking the car to Sydney on Thursday to have it diagnosed once and for all, since everywhere in Canberra is booked out until hell freezes over. I've decided to take it before it goes into super-clogged limp mode and makes the trip impossible.

I wanted to ask people's opinion about DPF replacement. Obviously it's illegal to remove the DPF so I won't do that. However, the Sydney mechanic has given me a rough estimate of $2000-2500 to replace it, IF it ends up being the DPF and not a sensor. This has got me to thinking that since this part's apparently a piece of crap anyway, AND results in substantial power and economy losses, what about an aftermarket one? Does anyone have any experience of aftermarket DPFs? I've heard Milltek makes something but from what I can see (Volkswagen Golf Mk5 GT 2.0 TDI 170PS DPF Milltek exhaust) it's just a downpipe, not an actual filter. Also HJS Motorsport.

I haven't priced any yet - maybe they're even more expensive than VW's part. I know the stock DPF on this engine takes a significant toll in performance and economy so if an aftermarket one resulted in a big improvement I'd consider it well worth the effort, especially since it would leave more leeway for power gains if I later decided to put on a bigger turbo or something insane like that.

Any input would be much appreciated.

[jazd]

Miltek don't make a replacement DPF they make a straight through down pipe for doing a DPF delete. Don't think anyone supplies aftermarket DPFs, Greg is working on one as he mentioned but not yet.

My advice, go to your dealership and buy a new G450 sensor. It is under $100 and you can install it yourself. Then drive around at 2500rpm 5th gear or something. Don't know where you got 1750rpm from but that is too low, I'd be wanting AT LEAST 2000rpm. You should be able to see the soot loading drop steadily if you hook up a laptop running VCDS. Hunt someone down in Canberra who has one. You also need VCDS to adapt the ECU to the new sensor.

Have a look at these two threads for more info:

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f28/help-exhaust-pressure-sensor-1-g450-signal-too-high-62596.html

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f153/vcds-label-file-gt-tdi-engine-bmn-125kw-170ps-62631.html#post714242

[Greg Roles]

Get a Vag Com cable. You can then diagnose it yourself, and can force a regen at will, when it suits.

You can indeed get a DPF from europe under a grand, and fitting is something any half decent Mechanic can do. Still a quote around the $2k mark is pretty good compared to the $4k plus VW wanted for a replacement DPF when they first came out.....

I have yet to prove my idea of a high flow one will work, but I hope to have drop in standard cores for all the dpf cars in the next few months....not in time to help you though!!

[Diesel_vert]

You can indeed get a DPF from europe under a grand, and fitting is something any half decent Mechanic can do. Still a quote around the $2k mark is pretty good compared to the $4k plus VW wanted for a replacement DPF when they first came out.....

Price hasn't dropped much, it's still around $3700 here just for the part itself.

[MidnightDog]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll probably get a cable at some point, but right now I don't even have a Windows laptop to run the software. I figure there's really not much point trying to regenerate with this DPF since if it starts to clog up again within a week (assuming it's not a sensor - which I shall find out) it's probably pretty f'ed. I don't want to have to burn it off manually once every 3 days to stay at maximum power. As for the 1750 rev figure, that was what I was told to try first by a VW specialist in Canberra.

I guess I'll just have to cop the price of a new one if it turns out not to be the sensor - and I don't see any DPFs for this model on eBay. Apparently there's quite a bit of 'precious metal' in DPFs, hence the expense.

Right now the clogging is rapidly sucking all the power out of my lovely new tune. Can't wait to have this dealt with so I can go and lose my license (like a boss).

MD

[jazd]

There are definitely some on there -
VW GOLF A3 2.0TDI EXHAUST CATALYST DPF - 1K0 254 703 GX | eBay
VW GOLF DPF DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER 2.0 TDI 2005-2008 BMN ENGINE DPF & CAT | eBay
Volkswagen VW Golf 2.0 Diesel Particulate Filter DPF2004-on** VWF146* BMN 170bhp | eBay
VW GOLF 2.0 (BMN) 02/04 ON DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER DPF | eBay

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ruspartikelfilter-Partikelfilter-Skoda-Octavia-1Z-/170613927209?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item27b961ed29

Dont think first one is right but it says BMN Golf.