Potential new VW diesel owner. Few q's (injectors)

[PranK]

Hi all,

So, I am looking at a few Passat's atm, decided against the 4mo 3.2 and have my heart set on an '06 TDI (103.)

Its from just down the road and we know the mechanic and have spoken to them about the car, the owner was forthcoming with all problems and told us that an injector was replaced.

It seems that the injector didn't fail catastrophically like the piezo 'failure' because the car was still able to run after it went (albeit quite rough.) The injector and loom were replaced 9 months and 9000 k's ago. The car has 117,000 k's on it and is in otherwise perfect condition with full service history.

I love it and really want it, but am a little nervous. Reading ukpassats.co.uk, one of the members reported a 5-10% failure rate and reading through the injector fail registry in this forum, most of the failures occur before 70000k's. With these two in mind, I am feeling OK about it. But my main concern is that the engine shuts down while my wife is driving our two daughters somewhere and she loses power steering and braking.

Somebody else on there reported that the new loom was different and the problem might be less likely to occur... Who knows though.

I'm not sure that a car as old (!) as this one and with as many k's would be treated under any 'goodwill' from our local VW dealer ('Bill Buckle'.)

Are there many B6 owners who have avoided this problem entirely?

A part of me is leaning towards an FSI to avoid this problem, but the fact is, that all cars can have expensive problems.

Thanks guys, any advice/opinions/warnings are greatly appreciated.

Christian

[benough]

From what I know the '06 103 TDI didn't have Piezo injectors, only the 125 TDI motors.

[PranK]

Ok, but the injectors can still fail - though its not as common.

There are a few reports in the injector fail thread of the 103's failing.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f28/all-pd-piezo-injector-failure-register-55060.html

[kaanage]

Yep but when you consider the number of vehicles with the different types of injectors (LOADS more 103kw PD than 125kW PD VAG cars), the solenoid actuated injectors fail VERY infrequently vs the piezo-electric actuated ones.

[benough]

The way I see it though is compare these reports as a percentage of the cars that haven't failed.

I have the 125 TDI in my Golf GT Sport and a Piezo injector failed at 50,000, replaced under warranty, and then all 4 at 100,165km, replaced under extended warranty.

With that experience I'd have no hesitation in buying said non piezo TDI with 117,000kms as it's made it that far and has the new loom.

[PranK]

Yep but when you consider the number of vehicles with the different types of injectors (LOADS more 103kw PD than 125kW PD VAG cars), the solenoid actuated injectors fail VERY infrequently vs the piezo-electric actuated ones.

The way I see it though is compare these reports as a percentage of the cars that haven't failed.

I have the 125 TDI in my Golf GT Sport and a Piezo injector failed at 50,000, replaced under warranty, and then all 4 at 100,165km, replaced under extended warranty.

With that experience I'd have no hesitation in buying said non piezo TDI with 117,000kms as it's made it that far and has the new loom.

Can I just say that you have both just made my day!

Thanks very much, feeling much better about it now.

[kaanage]

BTW, you'll LOVE your new fuelly figures

[benough]

Can I just say that you have both just made my day!

Thanks very much, feeling much better about it now.

Sweet, now go and enjoy that TDI goodness.

My car feels as good as the day I got it and I'm on 130,000km now. Just had the timing belt done.

There's a guy here with an 06 Golf 103 TDI with 383,000km on it, so if that's not an encouragement, I don't know what is!

[transporterq]

I have a 2007, TDI with the 103 kW motor, injectors failed as I was doing 100 KM’s, 20 miles outside of Geelong, still had steering and brakes so was able to pull the car up on the edge with no problems. Car had around 60,000 km's on the clock. Posted a thread about it, VW covered the cost of the parts and labour even though the car is out of warranty, seems like because it is a common problem, they have extended the warrant on the injectors and loom to 7 years. They are a great car, good performance and even better mileage.

[PranK]

BTW, you'll LOVE your new fuelly figures

Yeah I hope so. Its not replacing the Bora, just joining her. Its replacing a Forester which is another 12+ l/100 car. Can't wait!

---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

Sweet, now go and enjoy that TDI goodness.

My car feels as good as the day I got it and I'm on 130,000km now. Just had the timing belt done.

There's a guy here with an 06 Golf 103 TDI with 383,000km on it, so if that's not an encouragement, I don't know what is!

Awesome! I know this car has had its timing belt done which is a relief. I'm worried I'll just start driving it to Perth and back for the hell of it.

I have a 2007, TDI with the 103 kW motor, injectors failed as I was doing 100 KM’s, 20 miles outside of Geelong, still had steering and brakes so was able to pull the car up on the edge with no problems. Car had around 60,000 km's on the clock. Posted a thread about it, VW covered the cost of the parts and labour even though the car is out of warranty, seems like because it is a common problem, they have extended the warrant on the injectors and loom to 7 years. They are a great car, good performance and even better mileage.

Well, its good to know that the steering and brakes still work. That was a major concern, if you've ever lost power steer and power brakes on a freeway at 100+ you'll know its not a pleasant experience and definitely not one I'd like to put my wife through with a car load of kids.

Did anything change on the 103's between 06 and 07 ?

[kaanage]

My car feels as good as the day I got it and I'm on 130,000km now. Just had the timing belt done.

I thought you sold yours last year

[transporterq]

To be honest, I do not know if there are any differences between a 06 to 07, may have to search the net to find the answers to that question. Lots of accessories out there to buy for it, I have lots of bits and pieces on the body, now starting to do things under the bonnet.

[PranK]

To be honest, I do not know if there are any differences between a 06 to 07, may have to search the net to find the answers to that question. Lots of accessories out there to buy for it, I have lots of bits and pieces on the body, now starting to do things under the bonnet.

Do you have a build thread? Would love to see what you are doing.

[Greg Roles]

I'd say the 103 will be a good buy. The number of 103 injectors failing is absolutely minute in comparison to the Siemens 125kw, and unlike the 125, if an injector goes, the engine doesn't necessarily shut down, as the Bosch in the 103 can detect each injector. The Siemens 125 cannot differentiate between injectors, so if there is a problem it shuts down completely.

ALL diesel injectors can play up, heck I'm even starting to hear about the very latest commion rail injectors failing, but again only in small numbers. There is now an official recall in the UK from Seat, Skoda, Audi and VW on specific years of the 125kw, so the VAG group know of the problem, and there is increasing levels of support. It would seem if you have a problem and go into a dealer with some knowledge, there is now apparently a 7 year warranty on them if you have specific VIN number - what those years and VINs actually are is anyones guess, VW is still obviously keen to keep this quiet. It's slowly getting better, and I'm glad I was part of this process.

In my opinion, and it's only an opinion based on incomplete data, the 103 fails due to bad fuel and carbon buildup in the injector nozzle itself, and the 125 fails due to oil ingress getting into the Piezo stack and shorting it out. In either car the good diesels are recommended - BP or Caltex - and regular fuel cleaner every 7-10k is a good precaution. In the 125 I recommend regular oil changes to make the piezo o-rings last as long as possible, and it would seem the "revised" 125 injector just has double o-ring sealing now. I'm at 100k and have yet to have an issue, but do changes at 7500. Perhaps I'm just lucky, heck I drive around taking note of cars around me in the fast lane should it happen!

I'd recommend a 103 anyday, a 125 with caution. It seems the loom is done purley because its easy to break oil hardened clips ( as I did ) more than anything else. Will be great when the truth finally comes out, and we can all stop guessing!

[PranK]

Great post Greg, thanks.

One of the injectors did go on the car, but it wasn't a catastrophic failure as the car still ran. I'm ok with the prospect of having problems, hell we cant expect our cars to run forever with no broken bits, but this is good news to me and I'm more excited than ever now to get into it.

I'm a bit of a sucker for good fuel. Having owned a few GTR's in my time, it was always imperative that they got the fuel they needed, or they'd ping like crazy.

Again, thanks for the post, I cant wait to get it now.