Comment on Dyno/Compare Yours. Sick 2006 V 2.0 TDI

[CJ_DT]

Hello all,

Going through a long battle with my insurance company, car was crashed over 12 months ago, and insurance company still has not got the car fixed.

Body work is dodgy, but main issue is getting the car to run correctly. I got the car back, and it just has no power at all, severaly people have looked at it and unable to find the problem. Solitaire now has the car and is saying its perfect.

They sent me the dyno sheet to prove this, they state that it shows the car is fine. Its an odd dyno sheet, in that it does not have a torque graph also.

Symptoms driving the car is no power till 2500, and data logging has showed very low boost until this point.

My question is how to get a dyno sheet to look like this, peak HP should be at 4,000RPM, but on the dyno its dead in the arse by 4,000RPM. Done in a gear other than 4th, or is this what the dyno graph should look like for it. Anyone dynoed theirs before and after a chip?

Any advice would be welcomed, its been 13 months since I had a functioning car, of which I have had no car for at least 6 of these.

Chris

[h100vw]

Couldn't see the dyno mate. Joined up and everything.

Gavin

[Transporter]

Hello all,

Going through a long battle with my insurance company, car was crashed over 12 months ago, and insurance company still has not got the car fixed.

Body work is dodgy, but main issue is getting the car to run correctly. I got the car back, and it just has no power at all, severaly people have looked at it and unable to find the problem. Solitaire now has the car and is saying its perfect.

They sent me the dyno sheet to prove this, they state that it shows the car is fine. Its an odd dyno sheet, in that it does not have a torque graph also.

Symptoms driving the car is no power till 2500, and data logging has showed very low boost until this point.

My question is how to get a dyno sheet to look like this, peak HP should be at 4,000RPM, but on the dyno its dead in the arse by 4,000RPM. Done in a gear other than 4th, or is this what the dyno graph should look like for it. Anyone dynoed theirs before and after a chip?

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Any advice would be welcomed, its been 13 months since I had a functioning car, of which I have had no car for at least 6 of these.

Chris

Hi Chris,
could you please upload that as a picture please, so we can have a look.

[peter]

Hi Chris,

I came across this Autospeed article last week about cam timing being out on a 1.9 PD Skoda Roomster.

Not saying this is the problem in your case. It's just that he notes a change in the engine's character after a timing belt change though his mechanic insisted there wasn't a problem. Could your accident have caused an abrupt engine halt, or some other condition, that may have caused timing to be changed slightly?

The author took it upon himself to adjust the timing and managed to fix his problem. The article details his findings.

Might be worth investigating down that path with your mechanic, or yourself if you're comfortable.

I'm sure our more knowledgeable folks could also advise.

cheers
Peter

[CJ_DT]

Hello,

I have now uploaded it as a JPG to image shack so that should be a bit easier. Biggest issue I have is peak HP should be at 4000 RPM, but mine has died in the arse by then, also who has ever gone to a dyno and asked for HP, not torque figures also? I suspect its because the torque is nowhere near its peak at 1750 like it should be.

But having a good day so far, been hung up on by Solitaire Adelaide, and My insurance company contact. Would have thought that after 13 months and a trip to the ombudsman this shouldnt have been so hard. The timing has been checked by two different mechanics, and is allegedly fine, fuel pump has been replaced, as well as AFM in the last batch.

Other symptoms are weird harmonics just above idle without load, and at about 2k with heavy load (Makes the seats and mirrors shake etc)

Data logging has shown its not making its peak boost as early as it should either, but variable vanes in turbo are working fine?

[h100vw]

Chris, phone up KPM and ask them for the torque figures too. They must be able to give them to you.

74 kw would mean you are losing nearly 30kw through the gearbox. Which is quite a bit but without another car to compare with. It could be about right though.

Like you say though, it felt dead and lifeless on the road. Is the fuel consumption bad?

Gavin

[CJ_DT]

Hello,

Issue with getting information is I have now upset Solitaire, and they are pulling the legally I am not the client so wont release anything to me without insurance company saying so. that said this afternoon they have released the dyno sheet. In my mind this confirms that where the car should be making peak torque of 320NMS from 1750-2500 RPM its a long way off doing this. They are saying that the car produces more torque than stock therefore its perfect. See quote from them below.

"As discussed this morning here is the dyno sheet with the torque reed out.

It shows a maximum torque of 330nm about 2600 rpm which is above average. Also shows the standard of 320 nm at 2500rpm.

As previously stated, there is no issue with this vehicle with the tandem pump on"




I suspect the car producing more torque than stock at the wheels not the flywheel is perhaps due to the dyno being fiddled in shootout mode to get the best possible figures (but perhaps I am just being overly cynical).

This is not a typical torque curve for a diesel, and if the factory says peak torque from 1750-2500, then it should be fairly flat through thsi rev range??

Gaving fuel consumption has gone from getting nearly 1000K's on highway driving to getting just over 600km per tank (same in highway and city now)

All advide greatfully received.

Chris

[mikinoz]

I don't want to get involved too much but this was my 103KW TDI Sportline stock at about 40,000 km.

[CJ_DT]

In shootout mode is it corrected for flywheel horsepower do you know mikinoz (Yours showing 103kw would make me think so)? If so mine being corrected and showing that HP is even more of an issue?

[kaanage]

I came across this Autospeed article last week about cam timing being out on a 1.9 PD Skoda Roomster.
.
.
The author took it upon himself to adjust the timing and managed to fix his problem. The article details his findings.
.
.
I'm sure our more knowledgeable folks could also advise.

The author of that article took it upon himself to make those changes on the advice of several of the more knowledgeable folks on this forum who also diagnosed the issue for him.
I commented on the lack of proper citation in another thread but the good folks who provided all the know how were content to have helped.

I can't help but feel there is something wrong with taking information from a public forum and then publishing it commercially in a form that doesn't give any credit to the original sources Not saying that I was involved at all (I don't know enough to dare to advise anyone about diesels) but the principle irks me.

BTW this thread should be in our diesel section where those same knowledgeable folks could probably fully diagnose it

[h100vw]

That's a 40% decrease in mileage, pretty grim. Took me a while to find a std dyno plot but there you go. Peak torque is earlier than in KPMs plot and comes in quicker too. Which is what you feel on the road.

http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/a320tdi.pdf

I found this interesting but the opposite of what you are seeing. Tells you how to check the vanes are moving.

Volkswagen Golf V (2004 - 200 - 2.0 TDi - Turbo Problems | Technical matters | Back Room Forum | Honest John

Sorry not have any more ideas for you though.

Gavin

[kaanage]

Repost this issue in the Diesel forum, CJ_DT - there are people there who REALLY know this stuff but don't drive MkV Golfs

[Transporter]

It may be a bit harder to chase the faults in the car after serious accidents. I would check that the vacuum hoses and the wiring is intact everywhere and all connections are secure incl. earthing points. Look for the leaks on induction side and check the MAF sensor.

[gldgti]

Well, my thoughts to the OP -

its hard to put too much credibility in the top end of the dyno graph, because it has a lot to do with the operator. The top of the graph looks a lot like to me the operator did exactly what they usually do when tuning cars - they run it up until they see the power dropping a little and then get off the accellerator. With the TDI and the small turbo, this will make someone who hasnt dyno'd diesels very often chicken out very early.

That said, the bottom end of the curve is definately all wrong, as others have confirmed.

To me, what you have described and the results you are seeing reek of the same problem Julian Edgar found on his roomster (that autospeed article). The cam timing being out of adjustment could easily be causing the problems- since the camshaft operates the fuel injectors. Also, its important not to make 2 issues out of 1 - the boost will come on very late if theres no fuelling to get the turbo to spool properly, and I suspect that's what you are seeing. Even with a fully functioning VNT turbocharger, lack of fuelling will cause havoc to turbo spool.

While no-one on here can be 100% sure about the problem, if I was you I'd be looking into the cam timing, to ensure that it has been properly adjusted. The symptoms you describe meet that issue almost exactly.

[gldgti]

As for the graph they gave you with torque -

if you take your original graph, you can calculate the torque from the power. Its very simple:

Torque = Power / angular velocity

i.e Nm = Watts/rad/s

To convert rpm to rad/s, divide by 60 and multiply by 2xPi e.g. 2000rpm = 209.4 rad/s

Watts is obviously kW/1000

I just plotted every 500rpm from your original graph to get torque:



and you have a peak of about 250Nm... but you should plot more points to get the true shape of the curve