A new diesel MkV 2.0l TDi and smoke...

[Spoddy]

Hi all,

I am relatively new as a VW owner and even newer as a diesel owner, I have a question about smoke from the exhaust....
I also posted this in the "Golf (Type 1J) MkV TDI/GTI/R32 Problems" thread but then found this diesel discussion forum. I hope someone can give me some advice before I go to the dealer next Wednesday (12/9).

The car - 2007 spec 2.0l TDi DSG - The problem - when caught in traffic after a very short while (like a minute) lots of smoke starts enveloping the car and everyone around me, and when accelerating away the cloud of smoke it makes is even more embarrassing.
I have reported this problem to the dealer twice now. The first time they got me to go in and they "tested" it by revving the hell out of it, guess what – no smoke… they then took it out of site for about 5 minutes, came back and said there was nothing wrong…
Anyway, a week later (less than 5k on the speedo) the low oil level light came on – I took it to the local VW dealer and they said it needed a lot of oil to top it up (free at least) and stated that oil usage is normal particularly in the first 35,000km– up to 4 litres an a service interval! but should get better. I have read a bit about this in the forum but I think there is a problem just from the amount of smoke I pump out generally.
Is anyone else experiencing this smoking phenomenon? (The particulate filter is clean)

[brackie]

Don't accept it!

You obviously have a problem there. Don't let the dealer fob you off so duplicate the conditions under which the problem arises exactly while the dealer is present. Make the service manager stand there even if it takes all day! If it's using that much oil then it's over and above what you'd expect when rings are bedding in. Is the smoke blue or black?

[GermanwithaVdub]

i've found a huge amount of fluctuation in smoke blowing depending on fuel. and it gets much better after 10000kms... my oil light came on just before 7k, something to do with the super thin run-in oil they use (i have a feeling your oil light is not something to worry about). anyway, experiment with fuel, you might find that you bought a dodgy tank somewhere. i have had mine smoking quite a lot but then other times its clean and ive basically concluded its fuel. GL with the car.

[Seano]

....it sounds to me like there's a problem in the fuel delivery at idle.

Basically, it's over-fuelling and the unburnt fuel is displaying itself as smoke. And when you give some welly...you are developing more smoke for a bit while the engine trys to burn that extra fuel.

Equally, your fuel may not be that flash....full marks to United and the other independents for trying to take on the big boys but their diesel isn't anywhere as good.

[GermanwithaVdub]

....it sounds to me like there's a problem in the fuel delivery at idle.

Basically, it's over-fuelling and the unburnt fuel is displaying itself as smoke. And when you give some welly...you are developing more smoke for a bit while the engine trys to burn that extra fuel.

Equally, your fuel may not be that flash....full marks to United and the other independents for trying to take on the big boys but their diesel isn't anywhere as good.

"and people really need to get behind independents because without independents, theres no competition" haha gotta love the chaser. i agree though, stick with the big companies and see if it improves.

[Spoddy]

I am about to go for a drive, son in the golf, me following with a camera....

I'll see what happens and I'll get back to you all

A big thankyou to everyone for the advice

Watch this space....

[GermanwithaVdub]

vmq i reckon you should write a book on diesels. id be the first to buy it.

edit: yep show us those pictures of the smog spoddy

[Spoddy]

Pictures of the smog...

As I said earlier I went for a drive behind my son and replicated driving in traffic (safer this way...). the scenario was to drive at 10-15kph for about a minute and then accelerating gently for a second or so. These are the results.

Is this white smoke?

PM me for images - I am protecting the innocent - me

[Spoddy]

1. What colour is the smoke - black, blue, or white?

To tell the colour accurately, you need either to follow the car or to park the car and get out and look at it.

2. Is the colour of smoke the same when you accelerate hard as when the engine is warm and idling?

3. When the engine is warm and idling and also smoking, what is the instantaneous fuel consumption reading (in L/hour) shown on the display?

4. The smoke is only from the exhaust, or from elsewhere under the car?

1. Smoke is (I think - see images in prev post) white
2. Hard acceleration (once cleared) in minimal but probably dark grey
3. From following the car and letting it sit and idle it is not blowing smoke but does as soon as the accelerator is touched. Idle consumption is 0.6 to 0.7l/h
4. Smoke is only from the exhaust

[Mister_duck]

My Tdi blows the same mount of smoke as the pictures. mine is only under hard accerlation though. Also my car has got a reflash so that might not be helping the problem. Even when I car was stock it blew some back smoke.

All diesel vehicles will blow a bit of smoke, so im lead to beleive. all the diesel vehicles I have driven have blown a bit of smoke.

[GermanwithaVdub]

looks normal to me... get some better fuel thats what my money is on. i hope for your sake it is anyway.

[Spoddy]

A big thankyou

Once again a big thankyou for the well considered replies.
vmq6695, you're a legend, I will go through the detail of your advice today and get back to you hopefully this evening.

[brackie]

Some history...Please!

I've worked with diesel engines since the early 1970s and I've worked on and used plenty of diesel engines that produce close to zero smoke (I own and operate three diesel engines at the moment).

Very impressive writeup. mate. Can you tell us which diesels you have had particular experience with? VWs? Pugs? Lots of us are keen to learn more about hi-tech diesels as we are pretty comfy with lo-tech motors but fazed by electronic engine management, IP technology and injector improvements developed in recent years.

Write away!

[Spoddy]

Sure looks like white smoke (but I'll add the weasel words that I've not colour-corrected my monitor; one of the pics looked a tiny bit bluish).

The car used lots of engine oil in the 1st 4,000km but hardly any since in the next 4,000km so I don't think it is oil related.

Your instantaneous fuel burn figure and the white colour suggest that we can rule out overfuelling at idle.

I agree and the VW dealer indicated (yesterday when they had it for the day) as nothing has shown up in diagnostics in that respect.

I reckon the two possiblities to eliminate next are:
(1) air being sucked into the fuel line; and
(2) water in the fuel.
Your Golf is still under warranty, right? Your dealer should look after you. But you can guide the dealers attention!

Warranty - absolutely. only 8,000km on the clock and 4.5 months old...)
They took the cover off the engine and checked the fuel lines and cleaned?/checked the filter. No evidence of leaks or water.

(2) get your fuel filter changed regularly; and
(3) when fuelling your car, look at the fuel to check its colour (water in the fuel is often discoloured; in critical operations, a couple of litres of fuel are pumped into a glass jar and allowed to settle while the tank is being filled, just to see if any water is in the fuel); don't just jam the nozzle into the filler throat and pump away - look at the fuel and see if it looks clear and bright - and then you can jam the nozzle down and fill the tank until the nozzle clicks off.

(2) How regularly?
(3) did this with an independant further up the mountains after asking around another deisel owner's (land rover) recommendation. Clean and $1.289/l

B. I note that you are in the Blue Mts and I therefore guess that you have a big difference between daytime and night-time temperatures.

I live in Glenbrook, not much higher than the hills district... and warmer than Penrith. The car is garaged too.

The dealer and now VW Australia agree there is too much smoke given the way it happens just rolling along on a light accelerator at 15km/r for a few minutes and not after running against the compession or during hard acceleration.
VW Australia requested copies of the photos, which I gave them, and they have since been in contact with me to drop the car back to the dealer to do further checks. This will happen on Wednesday 19th Sept.

Whilst thay had the car they also updated the software for the radio (they said they didn't know what it fixed) and the drivers door LED modules - they said it was required VW fix to stop the LED from staying on after unlocking and staying on whilst driving - It was doing this regularly and super bright and really bad at night. Anyway should be fixed now and time will tell.

The dealer also set the convenience options free of charge for me - very pleasing after they originally said it was a charged service... They were able to set the ones I wanted except for the dipping left mirror on selecting reverse; they found that my car does not have the option. Does this mean that the 2007 spec is inconsistent between early and late versions? They had no idea. The right and left do synchronise though and this is handy.

I'll post details of any further news after next Wednesdays check.

Again, Thanks for all the help and information.

[Spoddy]

Update

Wednesday came and went, the dealer had the car for 15 minutes to do some further testing, not sure what but they said they sent the results directly to VW Aus.

Car is still smoking and they said they will be in touch in the next few days when they get a response back.

At least it doesn't appear to affect the performance of the car. Its amazing how it accelerates just as hard up a hill as it does down a hill... Love that torque.