Mark V 2.0 TDI blew lots of smoke and then made popping noise and wont start

[clefauch]

Driving home last night my TDI which has 142,000 km made a popping noise under slight acceleration and then blew out a large cloud of grey smoke so I pulled over and turned the engine off. Then tried to start it a short time later however it will not start. NRMA were called and they towed it home and they suspect it could be an injector problem. I would have thought that injectors would last much longer and would appreciate if members have any suggestions as to what the problem could be. Car has a tuneit chip for 3 years and has been serviced as per the book. Any suggestions also as to who would be able to fix this type of problem in Canberra.

[Umai Naa!!]

Most likely an injector issue.

See similar thread in the Passat section. Depending on which engine it is, it's quite common. Given the amount of kilometers your car has travelled, and that it has been chipped, it's highly unlikely VW will come to the party. Good news is, VW does the injectors on exchange basis. so they end up being substatially cheaper than brand new ones bought outright.

[clefauch]

Thanks for the info. I have the 2.0 ltr engine and warranty has run out so will wait to see what the mechanic finds when they open next week.

[Greg Roles]

Sad to hear, but I for one would like to know what the upgraded OEM injectors are worth, not so keen on just sitting around waiting for mine to go pop.

[clefauch]

Spoke with the mechanic today and was advised the turbo had blown in a big way with the fin blades shattered etc so I guess bits may have got into the intercooler which I will replace to be on the safe side. My only concern now is if bits have got through the intercooler and fed back into the engine. Any assistance/advice on what to do to ensure the engine has no turbo bits in it would be appreciated.

[DNA Tuning]

Spoke with the mechanic today and was advised the turbo had blown in a big way with the fin blades shattered etc so I guess bits may have got into the intercooler which I will replace to be on the safe side. My only concern now is if bits have got through the intercooler and fed back into the engine. Any assistance/advice on what to do to ensure the engine has no turbo bits in it would be appreciated.

Visual inspection would be the best; there are visual inspection camera kits that can be purchased from various auto shops where a pinhole camera on a flexible extension wire can be popped into each cylinder to inspect if any bits are in there.

Mind you; if any bits did get in; they have probably exited out your exhaust by now or stuck in the exhaust.

Sorry to hear about the turbo failure; did you take care to warm up and cool down the turbo for each and every drive? Modern turbos, even journal bearing ones should last well over 200k kms. Perhaps something got into the intake and collided with the compressor fins.

[h100vw]

Take the pipes off after the intercooler, anything in them wouldn't be good.

Gavin

[Greg Roles]

I'm currently looking for a 125kw turbo for another forum member who has blown their snail, you want a 1749VB and it would seem a genuine VW one is crazy dear. You can get a Turbo from Kerma TDI in the states for a start at about half the cost, and VB versions on the 1749 are readily available around the USA and Europe.

I'm afraid my call is the tune on the 103kw engine, you're about number 7 103kw to pop the impeller now due to a tune. The 125kw has a lot of changes all designed to keep the thermal load on the turbo and engine down, tuning the 103 up to the same level pushes things to the limit when it's just not designed for it. Newer tunes are no doubt probably OK, but the older, earlier tunes were notorious for this in my humble opinion.

You have PM, and a blown buddy friend...perhaps you guys can share shipping etc.

[Greg Roles]

Here's a GREAT database for VW turbo's...

Turbo search

[nutttr]

Turbo gone = bad!

Chances are you'll have bits in your intercooler, but I doubt it got through. Maybe a few little bits but small bits do pass through the engine OK.

The standard turbo is the 1749VA, which, really, is on it's limit at 125kw (what most tunes map the car to). With 142,000k's I'm not surprised it went. They tend to fail about 80,000k's+. Mine failed (untuned) at 100,000k's, but it was under dealer used car warranty - Total cost to the dealer was $3.7k. The turbo and pipes (turbo unit is an exchange with VW) cost about $2k on its own. You could do the work yourself if you are handy.

The issue with the 1749VB (from the GT diesel) is that it is upside down and needs to be custom modified to work with our engines (103kw). To be fair, you won't have another turbo failure, even remapped, for at least 80,000k's. I've kept an eye out on other remaps that people have overseas and the main cause of failure tends to be age (5+years) and km (80,000+) and the way the car is driven. On the 103kw you will experience massive surging about 1,850rpm to 2,250rpm where the boost (on a remapped one) will be over 1.6bar which is the limit for this turbo. Running the turbo at its limit will reduce its life, but running it beyond the limit (i.e. driving in 4th at 2,000rpm with your foot flat down) is the thing that really kills them.

Getting the VB turbo to fit is an issue. What people from OS do is recore the VA turbo with a stronger centre. The problem with this is that the variable vane turbos really spin very very fast. 100,000rpm is allegedly quite normal. I've spoken to a few places here and Garrett doesn't make rebuild kits for these turbos. I don't know if Garrett themselves have to do it, but someone must (as VW prices are for exchange). But there are aftermarket kits to rebuild them, however i'd personally just get a new one - Given how many k's you've done you'll get value out of it.

Try ringing ASV Spares (BMW, Mercedes, SAAB, Alfa Romeo, Audi, Renault, Volvo, VW, Peugeot, Auto Parts, New Parts, Spares | Euro Car Parts Pty Ltd) in sydney and see if you can get a turbo from them. They do sell new parts.

But you need to make a choice now, if you want to keep the car for a lot longer then you'll need to do the clutch/flywheel at some point (if it's a DSG then you'll only need flywheel) and for the manual, if you buy the parts from ASV (they do genuine Sachs parts) and get someone local to install it it'll come to just over $2k. Plus the repair for the turbo, $2k for parts plus possibly a lot of money on labour. If your choice is to get rid of the car then try and get a used one (ASV also does used parts) from a wrecker or a rebuilt/used one from overseas and then trade the car in!

To be honest, the VA turbo is OK, it's definitely good enough for a remapped one driven hard often. But if you go to track days, etc or often tow heavy loads on hot days, etc, then i'd suggest upgrading the turbo or laying off the remap. Lots of people have had remapped ones pop, but it's always aged ones. I haven't really seen any fail sub 80,000k's from a remap (even when remapped from new), it just seems that these turbos are overworked in this engine!

Hope all this info helps.

Aaron

[edit - On side note, i'd suggest ringing your local VW dealer and getting real friendly with him and ask about a price for a turbo + oil lines (do it all at the same time). Ask him what is the absolute best price he can do it for, they DO negotiate. The turbo/manifold is all one unit as well. The newer remaps are better, I run a superchips one and it cost about $600 landed in aus (from the UK)! The problem with driving a small turbo hard is that it goes up in boost and RPM VERY quick, too quick for it to vent the pressure (by adjusting the vanes, which is done by a mechanical vacuum driven actuator), hence the better the remap the longer the turbo will last)

[gldgti]

I feel like a grumpy old man watching kids about to hurt themselves reading this thread. Why?

Its the oldest rule in the book, for tuning ANY car with ANY engine - KNOW what you are doing, and KNOW how it affects things. Specifically, why do most of you "neu diesel" guys go get a chip tune without also getting a $150 EGT guage that will save you the hassle of a blown up turbo.

People go around blaming the turbochargers for "wearing out" after 100,000 km, or being "old" (what the heck ever that means) but never think to blame themselves because they are running the engine at maybe 20% above the factory rated output without any extra diagnostics to keep an eye on?

Too many car "enthusiasts" these days seem to think that they can shirk all responsibility when they hand over $1-3k to the tuning company for their extra power - (Note, I'm not directing this at the OP, this is generally speaking) - not so! Furthermore, I often hear people talk about how "amazing" or "incredible" new technology is, allowing us to have all this power and efficiency seemingly due to the 'magical nature of "technology"'.

The truth of it is, your fancy new TDI or TSI engine is 95% the same technology as 20 years ago, with a lot more sensors and a proper computer controlling it. But the turbo is still a journal bearing turbo, the pistons are still aluminium alloy and the exhaust manifold is still made of cast ni-cr-stainless steel, and like the previous poster has said, if you bury your foot in the carpet up a steep hill, your going to overspeed the turbo and eventually it will explode.

Please, everyone - the lesson here is to think about what you are asking of your engine, and ensure you drive along with the appropriate information and feedback to make good decisions about hte life of your engine (i.e. boost, oil temp, EGT)

[Spilledprawn]

I wouldn't bother calling VW for a quote, I was quoted over $4100 for a VW sourced GT1749VC, but went through and independent who sourced one for $2300. They might negotiate, but I'm willing to bet they wont knock $1800 bucks off.

[nutttr]

I wouldn't bother calling VW for a quote, I was quoted over $4100 for a VW sourced GT1749VC, but went through and independent who sourced one for $2300. They might negotiate, but I'm willing to bet they wont knock $1800 bucks off.

Mine was $2k VW dealer to non-VW dealer... So I'd try! the 103kw uses the 1749B though...

[Greg Roles]

As discussed Prawnie, there's a LOT of options in the UK, have you sent some e-mails?

At $2k I'd even go looking at higher performing hybrids - Kerma TDI in the USA may be able to help, but the 125kw is a bit new over there, so the UK is the best place to turn as they have them in the Seat Cupra MK2 as well as the VW Golf's for a start ( same engine ).