1980 GLD Injectors and Glow Plugs

[JustMark]

Hi Guys

I'm looking at getting some injectors and glow plugs from this guy in the states... I know that both items say that they are for the 1.6 diesel, but i was wondering if they would fit on the 1.5.

Looking at these injectors

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-1-...s#ht_593wt_939



and these Glow Plugs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-Di...0#ht_552wt_939

I was looking at these injectors as i run biodiesel and they said that they have mercedes nozzles that are approriate for thicker fuels. And wondering if the 155bar pressure would make any difference over stock. i.e. would i need to change the timing or would i just be able to put them in.

I was looking at changing the timing belt as well so i could adjust the timing accordingly

If anyone has some feedback it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

Mark

[dalderton]

Mark I have a 1980 Gld running on 100% bio and have had no problems with the standard injectors. I have change the standard VW fuel filter to an old Cav one with the glass bowl that has been around for years. The standard VW one is the toilet roll type and as such has a very small surface area and blocks up very easily in cold weather when the fuel gets a bit thick. The Ryco replacement filter element for the CAV setup is the corrugated paper type and is much better on Bio. Be aware that the Repco and Baldwin replacement elements for the Cav setup are also the toilet roll type and as such are unsuitable.
On the glow plug thing I have just ordered as set from the ebay link that you showed mainly because he claims that they are faster than the original ones. My car take about 60 seconds of heat on Bio on a 0 degree C morning to start comfortably and I hope that technology has advanced a bit since 1980. A previously owned Pug 307HDI used glow plugs but they only took a fraction of time to start on the coldest morning.
I anyone else reading this thread has any experience of experimenting with other Glow Plugs in these old VWs I would be interested to know.
I have got stuff from this dealer in US before and as far as I am concerned he is an honest trader.
Regards Dennis.

[gldgti]

Hey Mark,

Dont use those injectors. They are ok if you are running a turbo diesel and have a high lift camplate in the injector pump, but set at 155bar they will perform very poorly in a 1.5 - increased fuel consumption and less power!

the 1.5 does seem to benefit from slightly larger injector tips - but only slightly. Improves starting. For real biodiesel, theres no point running "high flow" injectors because its flows well anyway! runnig WVO is a different story, but even then, you need to have the breaking pressure set lower than 155bar (which is a tad too high even for a suped up 1.6 turbo diesel).

Dennis and Mark,

If you want to run bio and improve the starting, then i can recommend going to just slightly larger injector tips -
$45 New VW Diesel 1.6 1.9 Injector Nozzles Rabbit Golf Jetta Vanagon Quantum Dasher (Set of 4) VW Diesel TDI - at 135bar. Timing should be set to about 1mm of lift at TDC (if you dont have a timing kit, the same website sells cheap kits that are great value).

For glow plugs, these - $24 VW Glow Plugs for 1979 - 1996 (Non-TDI) Volkswagen Diesels VW Diesel TDI - are a decent cheap option. Glow time will improve a little, but if you really want to glow faster then you need to upgrade the relay to a later model. THey can be had from German Auto Parts but arent that cheap (I think about $80). The modern relay allows a 7 second glow.

The dieselvw-dot-com site is pretty good for this stuff, and I can certainly vouch for the nozzles. Postage is cheap too. I must've bought about $2k worth of stuff from him over the years.

[dalderton]

Thanks for the info.I am interested in the Relay. How does this work that the relay speeds up the heat time? I would have thought that the Glow Plugs would heat at the same speed for a given voltage no matter what relay was in use .I understood that a relay was just a switch however I am certainly open to an explanation and would happily pay $80.00 if it would reduce the heating time to 7 seconds. I had thought that the Glow Plugs used in the modern diesels e.g. VW and Peugeot must be of a different design using different components to allow for the almost instant starts.
A little more information would be much appreciated. Regards Dennis.

[gldgti]

ask and thou shalt receive....

for starters, (pardon the punn), modern direct injection diesels seldom require much in the way of a preheat, because of more efficient air/fuel mixing, higher injection pressure with finer fuel misting etc. This makes the requirement for preheat much lower.

Its also true that material technology has imporoved a bit, and since VW used the same glow plug design up until 1994 when they brought out the first TDI, the glow plugs had a chance to improve up until then. This is what you get just by changing the plugs out fore new ones.

The glow plug relay is actually a fairly complicated bit of kit - it varies the glow time depending on temperature, and even keeps them on for a little while after cranking has stopped if its really cold. I am not 100% sure if there is a built in resistance to limit the current draw on hte older style relays, but i know, having tested new glow plugs with a battery and a jumper lead, that 7 seconds is about the fastest this style of plug will get to be red hot (and they do). It doesnt take a lot of resistance to have a large detrimental effect on the glow plugs speed.

regards,
Aydan

[dalderton]

Aydan. Thanks for that,I am aware of the marked change in efficiency of the current common rail diesels. These new electronic multi orifice injectors certainly produce prodigious power and economy. I have my glow plugs set up with just a manual switch however it still goes through the relay although it only gets between 9-10 volts at the Glow Plug bus bar.It seems to be very difficult to get information on glow plugs as most people just put in what the book says and hope for the best (this includes me) I realise that it is impossible to get starting times down to that of the modern diesel because of the relative inefficiency of our old bangers.Still in saying this I love the old GLD and have just recently fitted a very low mileage motor that I bought from a bloke that bought it new as a spare part (no engine number) and used for a short time and then retired it . Unfortunately it does not go as good as the old motor did (maybe pump settings) but starts easier and is very smooth.
Thanks again for the info and I await with interest the new glow plugs.
Regards. Dennis.

[gldgti]

Dennis,

If you hunt around in the FAQ section of the Welcome to VolksWagen Diesel forum, you will find a "how to pimp your glow plug harness" thread that is VERY good. Well worth the minimal expenditure, even if it takes a day to do it (with a leasurely lunch and a lot of cups of tea).

9-10V at the bus bar is too low, i would think even if they are drawing current when you measure it. Certianly I owuld expect a vaoltage frop, but not that much. I would think that you have some wiring issues there somewhere. Fortunately the wiring for the glow plugs is minimal anyway, because all the relay needs to work is a signal from the engine temp sender, and an ignition on signal, (and it might have one that goes to the starter too, i forget).

All the best,

Aydan

***EDIT***

Hers a link for you my friend.... scroll to the bottom and you can email the "how-to" to yourself

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=14&Itemid=28

[lawny]

A little bit off topic, but where do u buy biodiesel from?? Do u know of anywhere in Melbourne? And does it lose any power? I really wouldn't want my beast going any slower.

[JustMark]

GldGti

Thanks once again for clearing that up. That link has a 135 bar injector that i might buy instead as i dont have the equipment to rebuild an injector... chased a few on ebay but they all got away... I'd like to learn cos then i could do it on the merc aswell... maybe for next time.


Lawny


Last time I bought Bio Bayswater it was B50 i think ... It was on the corner of Boronia and Stud rd.. I think it was SAFF it was an indy servo but i dont think the sell it any more... the other one i used to go to was past frankston on the free way but it would only sell B20.


Mark

[gldgti]

in theory, you lose between 3-8% power with bio just based on the energy content numbers, but theres a whole host of variables htat can affect the net result. In a 1.5D you will barely notice any difference at all, apart from smoother running and sounding engine

Mark,
try and find an injector pop tester on ebay for cheap. If you have the pop tester and a set or two of old injectors (for shims) you have just about all you need to rebuild them and set them correctly. they are simple jobbies at the heart of it and worth the trouble if you can find the necessary equipment easily. definately, purchasing a second set will be worth it though, just to have the spare bodies.

[dalderton]

GLDGti I am doing a modified "pimp the glow plug circuit" just awaiting a starter relay and will report on the result when it is all fitted.Thanks for the link.
Regards Dennis.

[gldgti]

Glad to help, best of luck with it

[dalderton]

Finished the glow plug circuit mods and now have about 11.5V at the glow plug from the Battery voltage of about 12.5. It was -4 degrees here this morning and it took over a minute to get enough heat to start it on 100% Bio but it started so thats ok. I got the new glow plugs this morning but am not keen enough to change them at this time .
Thanks again. Regards Dennis.

[dalderton]

Just a quick update on the golf I pimped the glow plug circuit which created some improvement in heat up time however a couple of days ago it was very difficult to start and after checking the glow plugs found one was U/S, I had recieved the new plugs mentioned in the first post from Prothe in the USA and fitted the set. They are much quicker than the old ones (Bosch) and on a 0 deg morning require less than 50% of the time required for the old ones.i.e. 20-25 seconds for the new ones. Very Satisfactory.
REgards All Dennis

[gldgti]

great to hear Dennis! I tell ya, it must be the year for it - i had every single glow plug on my mk3 die last month and same again on the cabriolet last week