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  • what is diesel?

    im a bit of a newbie with all this mechanical stuff, so can someone please explain exactly what diesel means? Pros cons etc.

  • #2
    Diesels

    Go to the "Interesting Articles" forum and look at "Vintage brochure...." That's a good staring point. The MK1 diesels were last imported in early 1981. Nothing then until this year with the Golf 5 diesels.

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    • #3
      Re: Diesels

      Originally posted by brackie
      Go to the "Interesting Articles" forum and look at "Vintage brochure...." That's a good staring point. The MK1 diesels were last imported in early 1981. Nothing then until this year with the Golf 5 diesels.
      Last Golf 1 diesels were 1980 (VIN 17A) and sold for about $12k.

      What about Golf 3 turbo diesels? They were imported around 1996 (?).

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      • #4
        The diesel had the most torque, even more than the gti. lots of componants on the diesel were strengthened to cope with the power.
        I just hate the way they sound on a cold morning, if it was turbo and ran on biodiesel, I`d be more interested.
        They made a few Mk2 diesels in uk and obviously you could fit a Mk3 TDi motor to a MK1.
        sigpic Camden GTI Performance. VW / AUDI Specialists
        All Mechanical Work, Log book Servicing, New and used Parts and Imports
        19-20/6 Badgally Road, Campbelltown, 2560
        02 4627 3072 or 0423 051737 www.camdengti.com

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Golf Loon
          The diesel had the most torque, even more than the gti. lots of componants on the diesel were strengthened to cope with the power.
          I just hate the way they sound on a cold morning, if it was turbo and ran on biodiesel, I`d be more interested.
          They made a few Mk2 diesels in uk and obviously you could fit a Mk3 TDi motor to a MK1.
          You drive a diesel in a completely different way to a petrol car. The low-down torque makes them pull strongly from low revs, but they run out of "puff" once they get above abut 4000 rpm (unless thet're a turbo!) ...max revs are 5200... This fantastic torque makes them a great town car as they nip around at low revs using thimble-fulls of fuel. My Golf does 50mpg overall with a mixture of hilly country roads and town work. When I lived in the city (in Perth) I drove a 1980 diesel that did 60mpg. Long runs at high revs kill your fuel economy. Recently I drove to Launceston on the Bass Highway (23km country roads and 130km @ 100kph) and she did 45mpg. I did the same distance using country roads an she did 51mpg.
          Golf Loon....They didn't need to strengthen much. Crank, block and conrods are the same. Only the driven clutch, head, pistons, front engine plate and timing belt cover are different. It's entirely possible to "dieselise" a petrol motor if you can also get an injection pump and vacuum pump.
          I LOVE the way they sound on a cold morning (but then, I also love the smell of napalm!) My aim is to import a turbo engine and 5 speed. Because VAG used essentially the same block for all diesels it's possible to turn a 1.5 into a 1.9. Another project that I have in mind is making my own biodiesel. The guy I bought my Peugeot diesel from ran it on biodiesel and has given me his secrets. We have the Simplot chip factory just down the road from us and I'm hoping to get oil from there.

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          • #6
            Brackie said

            "You drive a diesel in a completely different way to a petrol car. The low-down torque makes them pull strongly from low revs, but they run out of "puff" once they get above abut 4000 rpm (unless thet're a turbo!) ...max revs are 5200... This fantastic torque makes them a great town car as they nip around at low revs using thimble-fulls of fuel."

            What, unlike a petrol golf which would beat everything off the lights and then rev round to 7000+ rpm?
            And not use much petrol!
            sigpic Camden GTI Performance. VW / AUDI Specialists
            All Mechanical Work, Log book Servicing, New and used Parts and Imports
            19-20/6 Badgally Road, Campbelltown, 2560
            02 4627 3072 or 0423 051737 www.camdengti.com

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            • #7
              No match!

              No, it would never be a match for a petrol Golf! 0-100kph in around 10.5 secs against the diesel at 18 secs. But it's useful torque as it means less gear changes and less strain on the motor. And most importantly for an old skinflint like me.....a lot less fuel! (I used to get a pretty constant 35mpg mixed driving out of my petrol Golfs.)

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              • #8
                Hello Brackie!!!

                Man??? i'm worried about u guyz!!...

                Mk3 Tdi (turbo diesel intercooled)
                Sold 95-97 in Oz!!!!!!!!! Correct me if im wrong around $40g's!!!!!!

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                • #9
                  Where?...How?...Who?

                  Didn't know this, Gee. Must have been a secret kept from Western Australians. I'm 99% sure they weren't sold in Perth. Did see an auto of this vintage for sale on Carsguide website but I assumed it was a personal import. They must be as rare as rocking horse faeces.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah and didn`t they strengthen the driveshafts and use bigger front balljoints also?
                    sigpic Camden GTI Performance. VW / AUDI Specialists
                    All Mechanical Work, Log book Servicing, New and used Parts and Imports
                    19-20/6 Badgally Road, Campbelltown, 2560
                    02 4627 3072 or 0423 051737 www.camdengti.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      back on the pros and cons, and a little on bio diesel

                      my litle green monster runs on biodiesel most of the time, and loves it too. it'll run a little quieter, smoother and generally a bit nicer, with more low end power too (with a slight decrease at the top end...)

                      my '79 1.5 4-speed will get about 40mpg at worst, if theres a lot of huffing and puffing around town and running long distances at 100km/h, (like you said, brackie...)

                      HOWEVER - long distance runs at 90 - 95 km/h will increase your fuel economy by a LOT. its a trait of the gear ratios and the power curves of the 1.5's it seems, as your peak torque is at 3000rpm, and at 90km/h, it'll rev somewhere close to 3150rpm - barely above peak torque. it seems to be the most economical spot to run at, once you get above that, she's really in rev-mode, where you need a lot more fuel for your increased power... just an interesting point.

                      60mpg is a fairly easy to achieve economy with the 1.5, and though i've never done it myself, i would say 70mpg is possible too, with a 5-speed gearbox and a nicely running engine (an most important, a patient light footed driver)

                      Brackie - ive always dreamt/hoped/wished for the 5-speed and a turbo engine to drop into the golf...keep us informed on your developments in your exploits.....

                      and the 0-100 times? never say never. remember that a mk1 gti (the fastest gti to date, stock) had 110hp. a 1.9 turbo will punch out about 95hp standard, and with about double or more torque....need i say more..?
                      '07 Touareg V6 TDI with air suspension
                      '98 Mk3 Cabriolet 2.0 8V
                      '99 A4 Quattro 1.8T

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                      • #12
                        and for redmk1....

                        diesel is cetane based fuel, meaning its supposed to be mostly 16 carbons long hydrocarbon chains (where petrol is meant to be moslty octane, 8 carbons long)

                        instead of using spark ignition, diesels utilise a trait of straight chain alkanes called compression ignition. it is what all petrol loving people dread, and diesels rely on it. instead of igniting the fuel and air with a spark plug at the right time, diesels compress just the air until it is at extreme pressure (far more than is required to ignite the fuel spontaneously) and THEN spray in the fuel where it instantly ignites.

                        since internal combustion engines all rely on high compression ratios for economical running, diesels have a huge advantage, with typical compression ratio around 20:1 in a diesel, with a petrol engine usually around 10:1

                        the mk1 1.5 diesel is at the extreme end of this, with 23.5:1 compression ratio, and most vw tdi engines at about 19.5:1 i think.

                        this high compression means that the overall mechanical efficiency of the engine is greatly increased over that of a petrol engine. this mixed with the more favourable power distribution in a diesel (where the torque and power curves distribute power evenly throughout the rev range instead of bunched up at the top end like in a petrol engine) make it possible to get fantastic fuel economy through good driving and use of the torque down low.

                        (as an example, my little 50hp golf will pull up steep inclines in 3rd gear at 40km/h without too much real effort. 3rd gear tops out at 105km/h, so you can see that even though the max power is far less than in a petrol car, you get a lot more useful power where it counts - i mean, who wants a 6 speed trannie with all the gears 500 rpm apart to drive around town in? (anyone in a honda, im talking to you!)
                        '07 Touareg V6 TDI with air suspension
                        '98 Mk3 Cabriolet 2.0 8V
                        '99 A4 Quattro 1.8T

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                        • #13
                          sorry, also meant to say....

                          i see plenty of mk4 TDI's around, so i think all they missed with the diesels was the 80 - 95ish period....
                          '07 Touareg V6 TDI with air suspension
                          '98 Mk3 Cabriolet 2.0 8V
                          '99 A4 Quattro 1.8T

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                          • #14
                            Wow.. Another scientist among us!

                            Excellent technical stuff! Although probably wasted on the petrol heads. Your description of compression ignition, alkanes and cetane numbers takes me back to my diesel fuel injection certificate courses in the Old Country (many years ago!).
                            Yeah, the broad torque band is the biggest benefit of diesels, and if you drive within it you'll get the best from them. With a 4 speed, anything above 100kph is just blowing diesel down the exhaust pipe, as it doesn't get time to burn completely before the next cycle begins. Not good for the environment or the bank account. The 5 speed (apparently) gets you over the 100kph mark and lets you burn all of the fuel, but by all accounts you have to drop back to 4th on grades.
                            Oh, yeah... Diesel engines run at about 30 - 33% efficiency, while petrol engines are at about 27% (these days).
                            And... I've yet to see a '90s Golf diesel in Oz. Please show me one!

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                            • #15
                              thats an interseting point about the efficiency %'ges. when you say "(today)" do you mean petrol engines today or petrol and diesels today?

                              just as a point of conversation, i find it annoying that manufacturers like honda and toyota and the media talk up hybrid vehicles so much, with their average consumption of 4.9l/100km etc as being vastly efficient and environment saving blah blah blah, when i've measured my economy to be 5l/100km many times, and my car is 25 years old.

                              sure you can argue that it blows black smoke and makes lots of NOx's, but thats only if it runs on petro diesel, not bio diesel, which is much much cleaner, AND totally greenhouse neutral.....

                              oh ohh, im raving.......

                              sorry this oughta be in another thread, but anyone wanting to know what is diesel i guess should know the whole glorious picture

                              aydan
                              '07 Touareg V6 TDI with air suspension
                              '98 Mk3 Cabriolet 2.0 8V
                              '99 A4 Quattro 1.8T

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