Diesel + LPG or Hydrogen?

[Ivo]

Has anyone considered adding LPG or Hydrogen to their TDI to improve economy and performance? My dad was talking to a road train operator way out west and he was running a hydrogen system on this truck. Improves economy and performance and uses distiled water.

There are several companies doing the LPG system now. The results for LPG seem to be proven and you can get the govt rebate but not with the hydrogen system. It looks like the H2 system could be easily removed from one car and fitted to another as It would take me about 10 years to pay it off considering the km's I do every year.


I only found one legitimate looking Hydrogen site:http://www.greenmile.com.au/Hydrogen.htm

Info on LPG conversions : http://www.dieselgas.com.au/home.htm



Thoughts?

[Greg Roles]

Oh I've considered it baby!

Adding any extra fuel is going to have a few downsides, most notably increased exhaust temps. LPG gives a nice wack in performance, but so too is it frowned upon as now you have two types of fuel you are trying to control, and with VNT turbo's especially being temperature sensitive, it's something to be careful with. If you upped your O2 content, via more air in, cooler charge, water meth injection, that kind of thing then yep you have room for more fuel.

As for the rebate, as is the way, suprisingly LPG systems went up almost EXACTLY the rebated amount. I refuse to pay that.

Go for it man, but it's not a path I plan to head down at this stage, and even if I did, it would be way down on the list. Plenty of other things to optimise first, but it depends on your exact car. For me in a GT, it would be silly to go for LPG over the cheaper and similarily huge increase a tune or a DPF delete would give.

[oracle1]

The theory is

LPG is supposed to lower your EGT as more complete combustion of the fuel means more thermal energy is captured in the piston downstroke and the fuel is more completely combusted, therefore EGT is lower, the gain in fuel economy from LPG is not about adding more fuel, it is about flame front propagation and the LPG acting as a catalyst to burn the heavier diesel fuel more completely, I have no doubt hydrogen will have the same effect the question is, will it sap more SHP driving the alternator to make current than the efficiency gain from combustion enhancement

[oracle1]

make the hydrogen gen

you can make a hydrogen system yourself very cheaply plans are all over the net

[gldgti]

LPG is supposed to lower your EGT as more complete combustion of the fuel means more thermal energy is captured in the piston downstroke and the fuel is more completely combusted, therefore EGT is lower, the gain in fuel economy from LPG is not about adding more fuel, it is about flame front propagation and the LPG acting as a catalyst to burn the heavier diesel fuel more completely, I have no doubt hydrogen will have the same effect the question is, will it sap more SHP driving the alternator to make current than the efficiency gain from combustion enhancement

trick is to make just a little hydrogen at home with solar or soething else free, and use it in your car to improve the economy/clean up emissions. making it while driving is going to be a "false" economy

[Ivo]

The H2 system claims to only draw 7-14amps. I cant see that being a huge drain on the alternator and increasing fuel consumption dramatically.

Extracting hydrogen may not be cost effective to run a vehicle on pure hydrogen...yet, but its seems that it is effective when adding it to the main fuel source to improve output.

In theory lots of things should not be possible but they are.

[Sage]

i have thought about it for awhile.. only hesitation i have is will the DSG hold up to the extra grunt.. i am already near 400nm.. not worth the risk imo..

[Ivo]

I dont think it would be worth while on a Golf considering how great they are on economy but something like my T5 van or a Touareg could probably benefit and there would be room to fit it as well.

[Transporter]

I don't know, if it's $7,900 for H2 in my T5 it would pay itself after 500,000km and that's with max 15% fuel saving (they say 8%-15%).

[Ivo]

Cars and 4x4 are $2500. A semi trailer with a 18l motor is $7900.

[Transporter]

That's better than. I checked only one voice recorded Q&A in that link you posted.

[oracle1]

U can build one cheap

you can build a generator out of pvc pipes and the correct grade metals the plans are everywhere just google and its cheap 400 bucks tops just be sure to put in a bubble isolator her is some blurb havent read it closely treat witha grain of salt

https://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hydroxy%20Boosters.pdf

[Transporter]

you can build a generator out of pvc pipes and the correct grade metals the plans are everywhere just google and its cheap 400 bucks tops just be sure to put in a bubble isolator her is some blurb havent read it closely treat witha grain of salt

https://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hy...20Boosters.pdf

So, did you build it yet?

[gldgti]

The H2 system claims to only draw 7-14amps. I cant see that being a huge drain on the alternator and increasing fuel consumption dramatically.

Extracting hydrogen may not be cost effective to run a vehicle on pure hydrogen...yet, but its seems that it is effective when adding it to the main fuel source to improve output.

In theory lots of things should not be possible but they are.

7-14 amps.... well lets take the worst case 14 amps -

P = VI........... P=power, V= voltage, I= current

P= 12* 14
= 168W

go find out how much hydrogen you can make per minute at atmosheric pressure with 168W of power

[oracle1]

the reason I havent tried it is?

I make biodiesel for approx 36c a litre, a 10 % saving would equate to 3.6c/litre and on a golf that only takes 35 litres at a time and promptly goes for three weeks without a refuel it aint worth the effort. I like the turbo kit for 450USD, It will give me more power and probably 10% increase in fuel economy. Practical engineering, like when they build an aircraft they can make a part out of several different materials to save weight but at what cost? The boffins do some sums and work out how much fuel is saved vs cost of the part over the life of the airframe. Titanium is much dearer than chrome moly and aluminium and some of the composites in the warbirds are astronomical but cost isn't an issue in this application, because war is well funded. Where am I going to put this device in a golf? Right at the back under the steel tray of my landcruiser perhaps? if not managed and constructed correctly they explode and overheat meaning I am not going to put such a device in the hands of my beautiful wife. If my wife crashes the most explosive substance around is biodiesel and it has a higher flash than diesel. There is also no turbo on my wife's car and with good reason, I am very interested in the device but not particularly motivated to build one. The reason that I am interested is the possibility that it might improve the combustion of vege oil in my cruiser, I am toying with the idea of installing vege system, but hyrdo is to help engine life not to save money on fuel. GLD GTI your on my wavelength punch in 30 amp draw, that's more like the draw at full noise. The system is under vacumn but how much is that going to help. This is an issue that can only be addressed by scientific testing under standard atmospherics 15 degrees C mean sea level pressure 101.325 hectopascal over a set course machine of and on. I am not saying it cant be done just that the idea needs to be tested thoroughly, and if it were successful it would probable be in a commercial application like trucks, which would probably choose LPG anyway as the fuel recovery vs cost recovery ratio of install would be higher than paying 4000 for a car install vs say 10000 on a truck that burns a lot more diesel.