Turbo upgrade for TDI?

[Buller_Scott]

All up I have had 2 turbo's, 1 engine, 1 full exhaust, 2 cat conveters, 1 water pump, 1 starter motor all replaced under warranty

that, is nuts. really nuts.

howcome so many problems? do you rev your car really high/ push it constantly? im just interested to know, as that almost seems excessive.

[Buller_Scott]

sorry golfman i think i hijacked your thread again

is the galant cooler gonna be front mount? do you reckon something like this would work? [4th pic down]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Side-Mount-Intercooler-Turbo-00-01-02-Audi-S4-upgrade_W0QQitemZ110323410428QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item110323410428&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[bluey]

There are apparently other weaknesses in VAG 2.0 PD TDIs.

So worth being aware of possibility of failures before mods - since don't want to give VW good excuses to deny warranty claims unless you have a friendly/cheap lawyer.

[GoLfMan]

sorry golfman i think i hijacked your thread again

is the galant cooler gonna be front mount? do you reckon something like this would work? [4th pic down]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Side-Mount-In...1%7C240%3A1318

GRRR!
no matter, back on topic
i dont see the point of another side mount! We already have them in the TDI's and they already suffer terribly from heat soak in anything above 20 degrees.

Yup the Galant IC is a front mount and it convieniently fits under the front bar, so hopefully it should be a straight forward run to mount it !

I was reading Mollins thread and he's going to be putting a K04 on his 1.9TDI

I can get the K03s for free and it should bolt straight on, would it be worth it in the long run power wise?!?!
this mod would be wellll down the track though.... Exhaust and IC are next

[gregozedobe]

If the K03s is a wastegated turbo, and the std turbo on your TDI is a VNT (variable vanes), won't you need to create a new control mechanism (software and hardware) for the wastegate ? Plus would it have more lag at low revs (which is why VAG put VNTs on TDIs) ?

Just asking because it is better to be aware of (and at least theoretically solve) these issues before you start spending $$$$.

[Jarred]

I would tend to agree with gregozedobe.

You have to think about the software. how will it react, etc etc etc. A chip won't automatically take this into account I don't think.

[GoLfMan]

If the K03s is a wastegated turbo, and the std turbo on your TDI is a VNT (variable vanes), won't you need to create a new control mechanism (software and hardware) for the wastegate ? Plus would it have more lag at low revs (which is why VAG put VNTs on TDIs) ?

Just asking because it is better to be aware of (and at least theoretically solve) these issues before you start spending $$$$.

this is true, which is why a larger VNT would be a better option, the one off the GT TDI is a straight bolt on .

did we find out what the hp limit of the stock turbo is on the Polo TDI?

[Greg Roles]

Get me a bigger turbo Golfie, and you can have my VNT17 !

[GoLfMan]

Get me a bigger turbo Golfie, and you can have my VNT17 !

hahaha
ill stick with getting the most out of the one i've got for the time being..
mods still to go on the engine are:
-DP and exhaust, high flow cat, straight through muffler
-K&N panel filter
-Front mount IC

that will do i think, chassis is definately next

[Preen59]

If the K03s is a wastegated turbo, and the std turbo on your TDI is a VNT (variable vanes), won't you need to create a new control mechanism (software and hardware) for the wastegate ? Plus would it have more lag at low revs (which is why VAG put VNTs on TDIs) ?

Just asking because it is better to be aware of (and at least theoretically solve) these issues before you start spending $$$$.

The variable vane turbos have a wastegate aswell. That's how boost is controlled, as usual. The Variable vanes just allow the exhaust gas to be directed at the turbine at an optimum angle and increase the gas speed to spool the turbo up faster and at lower RPM.

[gregozedobe]

The variable vane turbos have a wastegate as well.

Sorry Preeny, I'm afraid you haven't convinced me so far. I'm not trying to be a keyboard warrior, read on to see why I don't believe VNTs have wastegates.

AFAIK the early TDIs had wastegates on their turbos, and the later VNT turbos used the same style of mechanism to control the angle of the vanes, so some people continued to call it a "wastegate", even though it wasn't (but it did function to limit boost).

My understanding of VNT's is that the boost control mechanism works as you describes at low revs, but also once revs get up to 2,000 or so it starts to back off the angle of the vanes (to a less efficient angle) to control boost to the required level (and no higher) at higher revs, thus VNTs don't need a wastegate.

This thinking is supported by the fact that a TDI turbo that has sticky vanes from being driven too gently will sometimes create an "overboost" error, so the ECU goes into limp home mode to protect the engine. If you switch off and restart, the engine will operate normally until it again detects too much boost. If the turbo is dismantled and the vanes freed up the overboost problem is cured.

If these TDI engines also had a wastegate they would never get the overboost condition, as the wastegate would simply relieve the excess boost pressure by opening up and dumping it.

Is my information and logic sound ? If I am wrong please tell me (preferably backed up with official VAG reference material or some other equally reliable authoritive source eg photos of a dismantled std VAG VNT turbo clearly showing a wastegate - rather than the vane actuator which does look similar). I did do a quick search, and everything I found discussing standard TDIs with wastegates was referring to older cars (more than 7 years old). I did find this link to a series of photos of dismantling and cleaning a VNT15 (it didn't have a wastegate) :

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-Turbo/vnt15-turbo.html

I would prefer to be accurate in my thinking, even if it means I have to own up to being wrong sometimes.

[bluey]

Seat Ibiza Cupra TDI (BUK)

FWIW, the Seat Ibiza Cupra TDI appears to have BUK engine produced from 2006-2008. Still comes with 6 speed gearbox. 1.9 PD 118kW@3750 330NM . Read review and specification http://www.seat-cars.co.za/Specifica...or_(2006).aspx. Another review.

But it looks like the Ibiza Cupra TDI is no longer available - perhaps because of Euro 4 emissions? Ibiz Cupra now has 1.4 twincharger.

This was perhaps the latest/greatest 1.9 TDI I can find stock. But it looks like that engine also has been quietly discontinued. Can't find any bad reports on it yet - so maybe this is the one with the faults from the 1.9 PD 96kW version fixed??? So BUK engine is on my list of things to collect from a forthcoming ERWIN day.

[Transporter]

FWIW, the Seat Ibiza Cupra TDI appears to have BUK engine produced from 2006-2008. Still comes with 6 speed gearbox. 1.9 PD 118kW@3750 330NM . Read review and specification http://www.seat-cars.co.za/Specifica...or_(2006).aspx

But it looks like the Ibiza Cupra TDI is no longer available - perhaps because of Euro 4 emissions? Ibiz Cupra now has 1.4 twincharger.

This was perhaps the latest/greatest 1.9 TDI I can find stock. But it looks like that engine also has been quietly discontinued. Can't find any bad reports on it yet - so maybe this is the one with the faults from the 1.9 PD 96kW version fixed??? So BUK engine is on my list of things to collect from a forthcoming ERWIN day.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were many internal changes to that engine in comparison to the one in your Polo to compensate for the increased output.

[bluey]

I'm only expecting to find changes to: turbo; intake; exhaust; perhaps cooling. Reliability reports of higher output 1.9TDIs seem confined to turbo failure. Hopefully ERWIN will reveal all...

This document describes the engine as being a modified version of the Seat Leon 1.9PD (which was also fitted to some Golf models pre 2006 - any comments on reliability of those??).

Main listed changes:
* efficient electronic management
* redesigned intake and exhaust manifold
* front intercooler
* intake diameter is larger until it reaches the air filter
* new diesel injection and turbo regulation mapping have increased horsepower without significantly increasing turbo pressure, which is now 1.55 atmospheres compared with 1.5 on the 150 hp TDI.
* exhaust system redesigned


This discussion on internal engine part nos is interesting. Debates whether there are any differences in blocks and water pumps. Says turbo on Ibiza Cupra is Garrett GT1749VB. From a business perspective, I would expect uprated parts to end up in later models to minimise production costs and maximise reliability. (Have to check current part nos to verify.)

This thread shows modified pipework for Seat front mount intercooler - pics on later pages show installation.

[Preen59]

Sorry Preeny, I'm afraid you haven't convinced me so far. I'm not trying to be a keyboard warrior, read on to see why I don't believe VNTs have wastegates.

All good mate. Although i can hear what i am pretty sure is the waste gate fluttering at full boost on a cold day/night in 2nd and 3rd gears at around the peak torque rpms. Also if i bring it to full boost and lift off at about 2000rpm can hear (what i am assuming is) the wastegate dump.

Off to the workshop to put it on the hoist and prove one of us wrong.