Oil Usage MY08 1.9 TDi POLO

[bluey]

Daily oil checks seem a bit excessive. Car fluid systems are all closed. For them to lose any fluids, there will be signs of fluid loss excepting what gets burnt in the engine. It would be hard for an engine to burn a litre every 5000km without billowing a lot of smoke or smoke stains at the rear.

A few mL of fluid leaking out of any of the car's fluid systems will leave visible traces of moisture or chemical residues somewhere that should be dry as a bone. Personally I think a careful periodic visual inspection will pick up more than a daily dipstick check.

Tyres are more likely to benefit from frequent checks than engines.

[j_a_h_2077]

I found that my car would use around 200 ~ 500ml oil per 5000Km up until around the 20,000 km mark. After that, I have not had to add any oil since. I do, however, check my oil weekly.

[Pumpe-Düse]

Well lo and behold, driving my 1.9 TDI Polo tonight, oil light comes on. Had the car since July when I bought it brand new, its got 11,600km on it. Check the oil level, there's almost none. Tomorrow morning the car is off to VW. This will be interesting...

Also, the fuel economy went crap a week ago for no reason... from my usual 5.6-6.0L/100km to almost 7.0/100km now for combined averages.

[gerhard]

Thing is - look at your cars, 2008 and 2006 models. New cars should not be using oil. If it has a 15,000km service interval like new VW's do; you should be able to do those 15,000km without checking anything at all or worrying about it. If not, its a manufacturer fault that they have to fix. If my new car was using so much oil that I was refilling it twice before the first service, I wouldn't be sitting here talking about it, I'd be yelling at <insert manufacturer here> about it and making them fix it and give me a free car to drive whilst they are fixing it.

Well lo and behold, driving my 1.9 TDI Polo tonight, oil light comes on. Had the car since July when I bought it brand new, its got 11,600km on it. Check the oil level, there's almost none. Tomorrow morning the car is off to VW. This will be interesting...

Also, the fuel economy went crap a week ago for no reason... from my usual 5.6-6.0L/100km to almost 7.0/100km now for combined averages.

I can't believe that you didn't check your oil a week ago when you posted.

After reading and even posting in this thread, you still ignored the obvious. Some people just can't be helped, it seems. How bloody hard is it to dip the oil?

Good luck with your yelling strategy.

[Pumpe-Düse]

I can't believe that you didn't check your oil a week ago when you posted.

After reading and even posting in this thread, you still ignored the obvious. Some people just can't be helped, it seems. How bloody hard is it to dip the oil?

Good luck with your yelling strategy.

Well lets see...

My RenaultSport Clio 172 did not use a drop between the 10,000km service intervals.

My Ford Fiesta Zetec 1.6 I owned before that didn't use a drop between the 15,000km service intervals.

My dad's Golf 2.0 FSI does not use a drop between its 15,000km intervals and neither did his old Polo 1.4 16V 6N3.

How can a car manufacturer schedule the first service at 15,000km if the car is going to use all of its oil before that date. If the first service is at 15,000km it should mean you can drive those 15,000km care-free, without looking at a thing.

When you basically spend 95% of your time working and are driving a brand new car you automatically expect to need minimal attention, its quite easy for even the simplest things to slip your mind.

[gregozedobe]

Am I the only person in the world who regularly checks the engine oil level on his vehicles ? I would never let the oil get so low the oil warning light comes on, and yet it seems to happen to lots of people on these forums (and not always because their engine is consuming an excessive amount of oil, either).

..... IIRC VW state that oil usage of 1l per 1,000Km is "within spec".

Well lo and behold, driving my 1.9 TDI Polo tonight, oil light comes on. Had the car since July when I bought it brand new, its got 11,600km on it. Check the oil level, there's almost none. Tomorrow morning the car is off to VW. This will be interesting...

I'm sorry, I just can't resist doing a bit of (well-deserved) stirring

If I was the dealer service person and I was in a bad mood I might just say something like "Congratulations ! You have just voided the VW warranty on your near new car because you allowed the engine to be run with the oil level too low. This will be noted on your car's official records and if there are any problems with the engine which MIGHT be related to lubrication issues (ie almost anything) then you will have to pay, not VWA".

I'm with Gerhard, after all the posts in this thread about how some VAG engines use a lot of oil, especially when new, I am rather surprised (to say the least) that everyone reading this thread didn't check their oil level

If the cars of today had the service intervals of yesteryear (anyone remember changing oil every 3,000 Km for a diesel and 5,000 km for a petrol ? I do - admittedly I'm an old fart) then you probably would have had to change your oil before it needed to have some added. However, given that VW recommend an interval of 15,000Km I think it is quite reasonable to expect you to to check the oil level in your engine once a month or so. In Europe some VWs on variable service can go up to 32,000Km/24 months between services.

Warning - the following text contains good advice that some people will ignore.

For all you "minimal checking" enthusiasts out there can I suggest that you also check your tyres (pressure, wear, cracks, lumps etc) and your brake fluid level at least once a month. It may save you some money, and in some cases your life (or at least an injury).

If a tyre has a slow leak it is very easy to adjust to the slowly reducing levels of grip and so not notice you have a problem. Then one day when you need to brake hard or swerve suddenly your tyre is unable to provide you the grip you need to avoid an accident. If your tyre is damaged or run at speed while underinflated there is a much greater chance of a blowout which may be very inconvenient (to say the least).

To sum up, doing the regular checks as described in your owner's manual is a good idea and could save you money that could otherwise be spent on fun stuff (eg mods to your beloved VW).

Some people may think this is a bit over the top, but I don't find spending 5 minutes checking this sort of stuff once a month too onerous.

/RANT

[Pumpe-Düse]

I'm sorry, I just can't resist doing a bit of (well-deserved) stirring

If I was the dealer service person and I was in a bad mood I might just say something like [b]"Congratulations ! You have just voided the VW warranty on your near new car because you allowed the engine to be run with the oil level too low. This will be noted on your car's official records and if there are any problems with the engine which MIGHT be related to lubrication issues (ie almost anything) then you will have to pay, not VWA".[b]

To which I would kindly reply, "I will see you in court." No manufacturer will put a 15,000km service interval on an engine that will consume all of its oil long before that time arrives. That's suicide for them, the legal reprocussions would be huge. They have to account for the lowest common denominator; ie - those with absolutley zero automotive knowledge who you could charge for headlight fluid if you were a mechanic. These people won't ever check the oil, tyres, any fluid, warm the car up, let it cool down after driving hard, nothing. If it can't hack it from new, within recommended service intervals (the only thing these people will follow), then its a serious problem for the manufacturer, not the customer.

In fact, if a service manager said that to the wrong person they'd probably end up out of a job. Following servicing intervals and having the engine fail and having it blamed on you = easy win in court. Having a service person being an ******** about it to boot = bye bye from work for them.

So anyway, back to my Polo...

Apparantley, according to the service manager at the dealership I go to, the oil light coming on does not mean the car is completley out of oil, nor does it if it is at the bottom of the dipstick. Apparantley, according to this guy, the sump holds about 4L of oil and the oil light comes on when 1L of oil has been consumed, with 3L remaining. This is supposed to be a failsafe because the engine is expected to consume a certain amount of oil in a certain amount of time.

So, VW 1.9 TDI engine experts, is this the case or not? I put 1L of oil in last night and the dipstick showed full; it shows full today too, so I'm inclined to think what he's saying is true.

The car is going in for warranty work however, one of the wires on the rear demister stopped working, there might be something loose in the engine bay (broken engine mount) and they're going to find out why its consumption has suddenly jumped 20-30% (and is seemingly getting worse) for no reason - with no change in driving style and type of driving (traffic levels etc) happening.

[Transporter]

Well lets see...

My RenaultSport Clio 172 did not use a drop between the 10,000km service intervals.

My Ford Fiesta Zetec 1.6 I owned before that didn't use a drop between the 15,000km service intervals.

My dad's Golf 2.0 FSI does not use a drop between its 15,000km intervals and neither did his old Polo 1.4 16V 6N3.

How can a car manufacturer schedule the first service at 15,000km if the car is going to use all of its oil before that date. If the first service is at 15,000km it should mean you can drive those 15,000km care-free, without looking at a thing.

When you basically spend 95% of your time working and are driving a brand new car you automatically expect to need minimal attention, its quite easy for even the simplest things to slip your mind.

Doesn't your owners’ manual say: check oil level every 500km or when you refuel.
Yeah and don't forget to check the tyre pressure too. Since you most likely wouldn't have a tyre pressure monitoring system in your Polo. You can have a serious accident while driving on under inflated tyres, if you stick to your "not checking anything within 15,000km servicing interval".
Read your owners' manual before you attack the dealer. In some countries you don't get Drivers licence if don't know basics of the car maintenance.

[gerhard]

No manufacturer will put a 15,000km service interval on an engine that will consume all of its oil long before that time arrives. That's suicide for them, the legal reprocussions would be huge. Clearly VW does

They have to account for the lowest common denominator; ie - those with absolutley zero automotive knowledge who you could charge for headlight fluid if you were a mechanic. No, they don't.

These people won't ever check the oil, tyres, any fluid, warm the car up, let it cool down after driving hard, nothing. If it can't hack it from new, within recommended service intervals (the only thing these people will follow), then its a serious problem for the manufacturer, not the customer. Rubbish

In fact, if a service manager said that to the wrong person they'd probably end up out of a job. Following servicing intervals and having the engine fail and having it blamed on you = easy win in court. Having a service person being an ******** about it to boot = bye bye from work for them. Maybe if you were their boss, otherwise no.

So anyway, back to my Polo...

Apparantley, according to the service manager at the dealership I go to, the oil light coming on does not mean the car is completley out of oil, nor does it if it is at the bottom of the dipstick. Apparantley, according to this guy, the sump holds about 4L of oil and the oil light comes on when 1L of oil has been consumed, with 3L remaining. This is supposed to be a failsafe because the engine is expected to consume a certain amount of oil in a certain amount of time. True, when you read the forums, try and absorb what is written, and it's also in the manual

So, VW 1.9 TDI engine experts, is this the case or not? I put 1L of oil in last night and the dipstick showed full; it shows full today too, so I'm inclined to think what he's saying is true. Yes, it is. The low oil light is to allow even the obtuse to notice the oil level is low. Hopefully you let them put the oil in, and didn't just put in cheap Woolworths brand, or your warranty could indeed be void

The car is going in for warranty work however, one of the wires on the rear demister stopped working, there might be something loose in the engine bay (broken engine mount) and they're going to find out why its consumption has suddenly jumped 20-30% (and is seemingly getting worse) for no reason - with no change in driving style and type of driving (traffic levels etc) happening.

Hopefully now you will be a little kinder to your machinery

[Oneofthegreats]

To which I would kindly reply, "I will see you in court." No manufacturer will put a 15,000km service interval on an engine that will consume all of its oil long before that time arrives. That's suicide for them, the legal reprocussions would be huge. They have to account for the lowest common denominator; ie - those with absolutley zero automotive knowledge who you could charge for headlight fluid if you were a mechanic. These people won't ever check the oil, tyres, any fluid, warm the car up, let it cool down after driving hard, nothing. If it can't hack it from new, within recommended service intervals (the only thing these people will follow), then its a serious problem for the manufacturer, not the customer.

In fact, if a service manager said that to the wrong person they'd probably end up out of a job. Following servicing intervals and having the engine fail and having it blamed on you = easy win in court. Having a service person being an ******** about it to boot = bye bye from work for them.

So anyway, back to my Polo...

Apparantley, according to the service manager at the dealership I go to, the oil light coming on does not mean the car is completley out of oil, nor does it if it is at the bottom of the dipstick. Apparantley, according to this guy, the sump holds about 4L of oil and the oil light comes on when 1L of oil has been consumed, with 3L remaining. This is supposed to be a failsafe because the engine is expected to consume a certain amount of oil in a certain amount of time.

So, VW 1.9 TDI engine experts, is this the case or not? I put 1L of oil in last night and the dipstick showed full; it shows full today too, so I'm inclined to think what he's saying is true.

The car is going in for warranty work however, one of the wires on the rear demister stopped working, there might be something loose in the engine bay (broken engine mount) and they're going to find out why its consumption has suddenly jumped 20-30% (and is seemingly getting worse) for no reason - with no change in driving style and type of driving (traffic levels etc) happening.

I honestly can't believe this is still going on.

Yes the oil comes on, but that doesn't mean the engine's has run out of oil. It's a low level light, not a "the engine's run dry light". There is still oil in your engine & it's fine to run like that, but not for long or under heavy load's.

If something happened, & you decide to go out & sue every man & his dog, I'm sorry, but as stated you don't have a leg to stand on & the legal reprocussions would be useless, as it's your neglect as an owner.

Wake up to yourself & read the owner's manual. That's what they're there for.

If it states & recommend's to check your oil so often & you don't do it. Your an idiot & good luck to you.



Off topic but along the same lines.

We had a customer with his wife in the passenger seat talking on her mobile & driving along as usual & "BANG"! the passenger side airbag & curtain airbag went off without warning & no reason, no fault's, nothing.

The wife ended up with a broken cheek bone & broken arm

They tried to sue the dealer, the manufacturer, the work's.

Guess what?

They didn't have a leg to stand on. Why?

The owner's manual stated, "Aftermarket electrical devices are not to be used inside the vehicle while driving".

DENIED!

I don't know why I keep getting sucked into this crap.

[bluey]

My dealer told me to come in for an oil checkup at 5000km as the TDIs are known to use a bit of oil when running in.

[Pumpe-Düse]

Clearly VW does

Actually they don't. The fact that the oil light comes on when 700mL-1L of oil has been consumed means that they are fearful of letting sillies who never check anything drive it to death. A light with a chime to scare them "early," if you will is a failsafe.

No, they don't.

Yes, they do. Also, see above.

Rubbish

Right back at you.

True, when you read the forums, try and absorb what is written, and it's also in the manual

The manual doesn't say anything about the oil being low when the light is on. In fact, it doesn't mention the amber light that came on in my car. It only mentions a red one, which is an oil pressure warning light. When it came on, I pulled over straight away, turned the car off and pulled out the manual. After finding nothing useful in it, I called VW assist, who told me about the 1L thing.

Yes, it is. The low oil light is to allow even the obtuse to notice the oil level is low. Hopefully you let them put the oil in, and didn't just put in cheap Woolworths brand, or your warranty could indeed be void

The oil light in the Polo (the first amber one) is actually ultra conservative. Normal driving with it on won't do any damage to the engine, after doing some research, its a "stage 1," of warnings for the obtuse as you say (the red oil light with constant chime is the bad one). And no, unless Woolworths sells 5W30 full synthetic, I didn't use that. Though thankyou for assuming that I don't know what oil to put into my car and/or how to put it in.

Hopefully now you will be a little kinder to your machinery

Are you implying that I've been unkind/abusive to it up until this point? Interesting.

Off topic but along the same lines.

We had a customer with his wife in the passenger seat talking on her mobile & driving along as usual & "BANG"! the passenger side airbag & curtain airbag went off without warning & no reason, no fault's, nothing.

The wife ended up with a broken cheek bone & broken arm

They tried to sue the dealer, the manufacturer, the work's.

Guess what?

They didn't have a leg to stand on. Why?

The owner's manual stated, "Aftermarket electrical devices are not to be used inside the vehicle while driving".

DENIED!

I don't know why I keep getting sucked into this crap.

Not the same. VW puts the service intervals at 15,000km. The manual tells you how to check/refill/top up the oil and advises it is a good idea. Not at any point does it tell you it will be required of you to do so prior to your 15,000km service interval. It also speaks of not being required for long-life service interval cars and a different short-life (7500km) interval car. Its not clear or concise about the issue. If I could be arsed to get it out of the car now...

[brad]

The manual doesn't say anything about the oil being low when the light is on. In fact, it doesn't mention the amber light that came on in my car. It only mentions a red one, which is an oil pressure warning light. When it came on, I pulled over straight away, turned the car off and pulled out the manual. After finding nothing useful in it, I called VW assist, who told me about the 1L thing.

Look under the section General Maintenance - Inspecting & Replenishing There should be a 1 page section titled Engine Oil which explains what oil is suitable for your vehicle. Towards the end it says Note: before a long drive we recommend you purchase and carry with you engine oil..... Not specific, but the implication is that VAG expect your engine to use oil.

On the next page titled Check Engine Oil Level in the 2nd collum it says: It is normal for the engine to consume oil.... 0.5L/1000km..... higher consumption in the first 5000km then it goes on to say check oil levels at regular intervals, preferably every time after the fuel tank is filled or after driving long stretches which I'd interpret as check every 500-1000km. This is quite specific & I can't see how it could be mis-interpreted.
I can't see a problem with this as after a few checks you'd get an idea of what the oil burn is like & how often you need to check it.

Also on that page it says: The warning light on the instrument cluster.... "Engine Oil Level" whether (sic) the oil level is too low.

I'd suggest you read the manual a bit more - it also tells you about all these other amazing features that the dealer never tells you about.

Not the same. VW puts the service intervals at 15,000km. The manual tells you how to check/refill/top up the oil and advises it is a good idea. Not at any point does it tell you it will be required of you to do so prior to your 15,000km service interval. It also speaks of not being required for long-life service interval cars and a different short-life (7500km) interval car. Its not clear or concise about the issue. If I could be arsed to get it out of the car now...

I got the manual out for you. See above. The don't advise, recommend, urge,encourage or suggest that you check the oil - they say DO IT!. I can't see how they could be any clearer.

The only oil issue that I find unclear is their recommendations as to what oil to use - but that's a subject for a different thread.

Subaru used to have oil usage issues. At delivery they would even issue the new owner with gloves, wipes & a litre of oil. They clearly stated that oil should be checked every 500km. Quite a few people thought that they were above getting their hands dirty by checking the oil and Subaru weren't shy about denying their warranty claims (no oil level light on Subarus).

[gregozedobe]

warnings for the obtuse

Couldn't have phrased it better myself.

People who don't have any mechanical sympathy for their vehicles is a big reason why I prefer to buy brand new, even though it is a lot cheaper to buy at 1-2 years old.

[gerhard]

Look under the section General Maintenance - Inspecting & Replenishing There should be a 1 page section titled Engine Oil which explains what oil is suitable for your vehicle. Towards the end it says Note: before a long drive we recommend you purchase and carry with you engine oil..... Not specific, but the implication is that VAG expect your engine to use oil.

On the next page titled Check Engine Oil Level in the 2nd collum it says: It is normal for the engine to consume oil.... 0.5L/1000km..... higher consumption in the first 5000km then it goes on to say check oil levels at regular intervals, preferably every time after the fuel tank is filled or after driving long stretches which I'd interpret as check every 500-1000km. This is quite specific & I can't see how it could be mis-interpreted.
I can't see a problem with this as after a few checks you'd get an idea of what the oil burn is like & how often you need to check it.

Also on that page it says: The warning light on the instrument cluster.... "Engine Oil Level" whether (sic) the oil level is too low.

I'd suggest you read the manual a bit more - it also tells you about all these other amazing features that the dealer never tells you about.


I got the manual out for you. See above. The don't advise, recommend, urge,encourage or suggest that you check the oil - they say DO IT!. I can't see how they could be any clearer.

The only oil issue that I find unclear is their recommendations as to what oil to use - but that's a subject for a different thread.

Subaru used to have oil usage issues. At delivery they would even issue the new owner with gloves, wipes & a litre of oil. They clearly stated that oil should be checked every 500km. Quite a few people thought that they were above getting their hands dirty by checking the oil and Subaru weren't shy about denying their warranty claims (no oil level light on Subarus).

Unfortunately, Brad, your very clear re-iteration of the contents of the manual will have no effect on this bloke. It's akin to pi$$ing into the wind - instead of getting relief, you just get excrement blown back at you

With a bit of luck he'll sell it since it needed oil before the stated 15,000k service period (which he seems to get, whereas he seems not to get anything else !!) and move to another forum and sprout his version of how the world should be to the members there.