Originally posted by pjbplumbing@bigpond.com
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80mm exhaust on my T4 2.5 TDI
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Here's my T4 2.5TDI manifolds.
Turbos (two vnt's, the bigger one is good for 5-600hp and ~3,5bar) are going to be located in the trunk. Target is to get 450 road usable hp and 1/4mile time close to 13 seconds.VW T4 2.5TDI 350hp, 700Nm @2,2bar. 2000kg with aerodynamics of a barn door.
14,53s 158,8kmh @1/4-mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSTslJf7Z4
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Originally posted by gldgti View Postman thats incredible!
tell me, why do you want to put the turbo's so far from the engine?
Possibly to reduce the turbo component temperatures as the exhaust gas will cool between the manifold and boot-mounted turbo. The exhaust gas pressure will be almost the same as the pressure at the manifold so the turbo output will not be reduced.
My interest is how will the turbo oil supply will be set up.Carer for my partner's Eos 2.0 TDI DSG MY09 Candy White/Cornsilk Beige leather trim.
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I've got a hard on.2014 Skoda Yeti TDI Outdoor 4x4 | Audi Q3 CFGC repower | Darkside tune and Race Cams | Darkside dump pDPF | Wagner Comp IC | Snow Water Meth | Bilstein B6 H&R springs | Rays Homura 2x7 18 x 8" 255 Potenza Sports | Golf R subframe | Superpro sways and bushings | 034 engine mounts | MK6 GTI brakes |
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It's not the high temperatures I'm afraid of, it's the space under the hood that's insufficient for both turbos. You have to keep in mind that the bigger vnt (gt37v) weights about 40kg and is the size of a soccer ball...
Now what I'm afraid is too low exhaust temperature to spin those turbos. Actually it's the volume of gasses, not the temperature, but as the temperature reduces so does the volume too. I will do my best to keep the heat in the gasses and will use a lot of ceramic coating and some more conventional insulation to do this.
Oil supply is easy as oil pressure from the engine's oil pump is more than enough. Hard part is obviously getting that oil back to the engine from the non pressurized side (=after turbo) and that's why an electrical pump is needed.
Everything is going to be electrically controlled with additional DTA-box + original ECU is going to be changed for a more modern version of it (from a 111kW T4 with original vnt control in it). Gearbox will also come from 111kW as my current one is over it's limits with previous 370hp, 750Nm. Don't get me wrong: 102hp GB is extremely strong, it's just the syncros between 1st and 2nd that always fail.VW T4 2.5TDI 350hp, 700Nm @2,2bar. 2000kg with aerodynamics of a barn door.
14,53s 158,8kmh @1/4-mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSTslJf7Z4
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Originally posted by shadowmaker View Post
Now what I'm afraid is too low exhaust temperature to spin those turbos. Actually it's the volume of gasses, not the temperature, but as the temperature reduces so does the volume too. I will do my best to keep the heat in the gasses and will use a lot of ceramic coating and some more conventional insulation to do this.
The operative equation in a static system is the ideal gas law:
P1xV1/T1 = P2xV2/T2 where P = Pressure, V = Volume and T = temperature in deg Kelvin [deg C + 273].
The Pressure in the exhaust system up to the turbo will be almost uniform and will vary in proportion to the engine revolutions so this factor can be deleted from the equation which now becomes:
V1/T1 = V2/T2 which, in turn, may be manipulated to become V2 = V1xT2/T1.
If we do some sample calculations based on exhaust gas temperatures of T1 = 700 deg C [973 deg K] and T2 = 500 deg C [773 deg K], the volume change becomes V2 = V1x773/973
= 0.79V1 [a 21% reduction]
However this applies to a static system and not to a dynamic situation like the one that exists in a Turbo system where the velocity of the gas and its density on both the exhaust gas and combustion air intake sides of the turbo become important factors in the calculation. The mathematics involved now become far more complex and cannot be explained in layman's terms.
However, if some reduction in exhaust gas temperature say up to 100 deg C can be tolerated, the life of the turbo should be improved without unacceptable reductions in volume and pressure of combustion air delivered to the intake manifold.Carer for my partner's Eos 2.0 TDI DSG MY09 Candy White/Cornsilk Beige leather trim.
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Presumably on such a crazy build as this you aren't concerned about the extra lag you will get from having your turbos (!!) further away from the head ?
Are you going to be running FWD dragster tyres ? With the amount of power you are putting out you would fry most "normal" road tyres trying to do a fast standing start on FWD van.2017 MY18 Golf R 7.5 Wolfsburg wagon (boring white) delivered 21 Sep 2017, 2008 Octavia vRS wagon 2.0 TFSI 6M (bright yellow), 2006 T5 Transporter van 2.5 TDI 6M (gone but not forgotten).
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Silvershadow:
Are you sure that the reduction in temperature is only ~200C? I'd think it's at least something like 4-500C without any effort against it. With effort I think I can reduce it to a 200C level propably. Really don't know yet.
On the other hand, reduced temps in ex gasses will also reduce EMP in high rev area, so exhaust side efficiency should be better there. Turbo will spool later, but it will also operate higher.
gregozedobe:
I'am really concerned about the possible lag. Everything will be done to fight against it. Sadly the lenght (and volume) of the ex manifold can't be avoided (volume reduces dramatically the strenght of exhaust pulses). I will use two different size vnts to maximise the width of the power band. I will also use an anti-lag system that we have already used succesfully in our MB OM603 engine (1989 3.0L TD inline six, 12 valve, gt37v, 450hp, 700Nm restricted).
I know the limitations of FWD, which are even worse on a heavy van. With 370hp I could smoke tire on 1st and 2nd, but only occasionally on 3rd with my normal 18" tires on dry tarmac. At the track I used DOT approved semi slicks and got ~2.4s 60feet times. Improvements will include new suspension, custom made diff lock and reduced bodyweight. Also brakes will be upgraded to 330mm with 8 pot calibers.
There's no reasonable point for building up a "performance" van, but that's my hobby and passion. I still think it beats the hell out of collecting stamps...VW T4 2.5TDI 350hp, 700Nm @2,2bar. 2000kg with aerodynamics of a barn door.
14,53s 158,8kmh @1/4-mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSTslJf7Z4
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Originally posted by shadowmaker View Post.....There's no reasonable point for building up a "performance" van, but that's my hobby and passion. I still think it beats the hell out of collecting stamps...
If you are building a drag-strip only special you could hang the heavy turbos out the front of the engine to help you get better traction off the line (that way the weight transfer would go onto the front wheels, not onto the rear wheels).
If it is to be road registered and look vaguely "stock" then this isn't really such a practical option. Some of the USA FWD dragsters look quite bizarre, with the engine hanging way out the front of the drive wheels, but they are getting surprisingly good results.
Keep up the good work2017 MY18 Golf R 7.5 Wolfsburg wagon (boring white) delivered 21 Sep 2017, 2008 Octavia vRS wagon 2.0 TFSI 6M (bright yellow), 2006 T5 Transporter van 2.5 TDI 6M (gone but not forgotten).
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Propane? From what I've been reading this can throw your exhaust temps up, and in your case you will actually want that, for power AND temps. But then given your serious mods, I'm sure you've already considered this.
Geesus I'd love to know what you can do to make less lag in the VNT apart from a bi-turbo...2014 Skoda Yeti TDI Outdoor 4x4 | Audi Q3 CFGC repower | Darkside tune and Race Cams | Darkside dump pDPF | Wagner Comp IC | Snow Water Meth | Bilstein B6 H&R springs | Rays Homura 2x7 18 x 8" 255 Potenza Sports | Golf R subframe | Superpro sways and bushings | 034 engine mounts | MK6 GTI brakes |
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Originally posted by shadowmaker View PostSilvershadow:
Are you sure that the reduction in temperature is only ~200C? I'd think it's at least something like 4-500C without any effort against it. With effort I think I can reduce it to a 200C level propably. Really don't know yet.
On the other hand, reduced temps in ex gasses will also reduce EMP in high rev area, so exhaust side efficiency should be better there. Turbo will spool later, but it will also operate higher.
gregozedobe:
I'am really concerned about the possible lag. Everything will be done to fight against it. Sadly the lenght (and volume) of the ex manifold can't be avoided (volume reduces dramatically the strenght of exhaust pulses). I will use two different size vnts to maximise the width of the power band. I will also use an anti-lag system that we have already used succesfully in our MB OM603 engine (1989 3.0L TD inline six, 12 valve, gt37v, 450hp, 700Nm restricted).
I know the limitations of FWD, which are even worse on a heavy van. With 370hp I could smoke tire on 1st and 2nd, but only occasionally on 3rd with my normal 18" tires on dry tarmac. At the track I used DOT approved semi slicks and got ~2.4s 60feet times. Improvements will include new suspension, custom made diff lock and reduced bodyweight. Also brakes will be upgraded to 330mm with 8 pot calibers.
There's no reasonable point for building up a "performance" van, but that's my hobby and passion. I still think it beats the hell out of collecting stamps...
Performance Tunes from $850Wrecking RS OCTAVIA 2 Link
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You'd have to feel a bit nervous pulling up behind that at the lights...."geez, that looks like.....looks like a JET!"2014 Skoda Yeti TDI Outdoor 4x4 | Audi Q3 CFGC repower | Darkside tune and Race Cams | Darkside dump pDPF | Wagner Comp IC | Snow Water Meth | Bilstein B6 H&R springs | Rays Homura 2x7 18 x 8" 255 Potenza Sports | Golf R subframe | Superpro sways and bushings | 034 engine mounts | MK6 GTI brakes |
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Originally posted by cogdoc View PostYou'd have to feel a bit nervous pulling up behind that at the lights...."geez, that looks like.....looks like a JET!"
The pictures were taken at Whyalla last weekend at Monster truck show.
To be honest that van was pathetic and toooo slow.
The jet was running on diesel.Performance Tunes from $850Wrecking RS OCTAVIA 2 Link
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