Wheel spacers for Golf TDI Highline

[stevec4206]

Hi Guys,
I have a mk7 tdi highline and I like the standard wheels so im considering just widening the track to make it look a little better.
I cant seem to find any spacers, does anybody know if they exist or have any tips?
Thanks

[Greg Roles]

42 Draft designs in the USA, or anywhere overseas really. Don't get caught in a roadside inspection as they are illegal here ( hence limited local supply ), but plenty of the JDM guys run them.

[Guest001]

They are legal to be sold but illegal to be usd on the road unless originally fitted by the manufacturer. In all States

[gldgti]

You can get it engineered though cant you?

[Guest001]

I would seriously doubt that any Engineer would be stupid enough to do that with something that is illegal in ADR Rules

From QLD TMR Wheel spacers must not be used unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle
manufacturer.


Same in every other state.

If you were an engineer would you put your name to a set on a vehicle

Do it the proper way and buy some wheels with a wider offset

[gldgti]

I would seriously doubt that any Engineer would be stupid enough to do that with something that is illegal in ADR Rules

From QLD TMR Wheel spacers must not be used unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle
manufacturer.


Same in every other state.

If you were an engineer would you put your name to a set on a vehicle

Do it the proper way and buy some wheels with a wider offset

Well, I am an engineer.... not one that does automotive certifications though. Would I certify spacers? Good question. The only thing dangerous about them is that if you are an idiot, you can mount the wheel improperly. There's nothing inherently wrong with them though.

If you use long enough bolts, have the proper hub bore and the offset doesnt compromise the suspension travel..... then I don't see the problem at all. The only risk is that someone (tyre shop) might mount the rim improperly.

Just because something is law, doesnt mean it makes sense

[Guest001]

So you would willingly certify something that is illegal.

As I understand it they alter the centreline through the bearings and therefore put more strain on them the studs and the hub.

Just because you think its Ok also doesnt make it sensible either

ADR rules are for a reason and should you flout them and have an accident attributable to the illegality your insurance company may not be forthcoming.

Was a photo on here a long time ago of a poster who had spacers and it showed the car with 3 wheels due to shearing the bolts.

There is also a difference between flush faced spacers and adapters with a centre flange.

Some say even adapters are illegal

Results of bad ones here The dangers of wheel adaptors!! - Brakes, Wheels and Tyres - GMH-Torana


The OP should just buy some wheels with wider offset if thats what he wants to achieve

[gldgti]

Sorry mate - it doesn't gel. The load on bearings would be the same if you used wheels of the same effective offset. No change. Consider that almost all cars have a set of floating brake rotors - its no different.

The danger is improper mounting, which happens when people dont understand enough to do it properly. Thats dangerous no matter what the modification is....

Theres no reason you cant get spacers engineered - just like you can get a LS1 converted triumph stag engineered, or a beach buggy with a subaru engine.

[Guest001]

What I am questioning is how can you ( or an automotive engineeer) overrule ADR rules which are supposedly sacrosant.

They cover most things and yes you can alter some things and there are rules to say that but there is no variation on fitting of spacers.

The ADR rule and the States rules say they are illegal, plain and simple, so how can that be overruled.

As said in my link some have even been told that adapters are classed in a similar vein and are also illegal.

I will question the QLD TMR on Monday for an answer. Here it is

The fitting of spacers or adaptors between wheels and hubs, other than those provided by the
vehicle manufacturer, is not permitted.
The tyre and rim must not foul wheel arches or suspension components under any conditions. Steering
limit stops must not be adjusted to reduce the turning circle in order to allow the fitting of the alternative rims and
tyres.

[AdamD]

The fitting of spacers or adaptors between wheels and hubs, other than those provided by the
vehicle manufacturer, is not permitted.

As gldgti pointed out, having modifications engineered can make them legal. I haven't read through the ADRs carefully, but no doubt there are sections that identify which rules may be exempted based on certification by an automotive engineer. Presumably spacers are eligible for this exemption.

Spacers themselves aren't inherently dangerous regardless of application. After all, the ADRs explicitly permit spacers on cars where supplied by the manufacturer (e.g. on some Porsches). All the same risks with respect to changing of wheels apply to these vehicles as any other. If the ADRs considered spacers to be prohibitively risky regardless of the circumstance, they would have banned them without qualification.

[jdw]

Well, I am an engineer.... not one that does automotive certifications though. Would I certify spacers? Good question. The only thing dangerous about them is that if you are an idiot, you can mount the wheel improperly. There's nothing inherently wrong with them though.

If you use long enough bolts, have the proper hub bore and the offset doesnt compromise the suspension travel..... then I don't see the problem at all. The only risk is that someone (tyre shop) might mount the rim improperly.

Just because something is law, doesnt mean it makes sense

HI .....what do you mean by "mount the wheel improperly" ?

[AdamD]

HI .....what do you mean by "mount the wheel improperly" ?

When you're talking spacers, that's usually something like using lug bolts that are too short.

[Guest001]

This from the QLD TMR guide to Roadworthy inspections and the reasons to get turned down for one




Vehicle Inspection Guidelines (Department of Transport and Main Roads)

Reasons for Rejection

Page 44 7.2

Spacer plates are used between hub and wheels (except where fitted by the vehicle
manufacturer).

[Dutch77]

That is pretty much the case in each state as well.

I think the point gldgti is making is that if you got the modifications certified by an engineer and then presented it to the state's transport department then they may accept it and therefore it would be fine. Obviously a costly and mostly pointless exercise though.

The same thing would apply to coilovers that a lot of people fit - they're not legal either in some (all?) states without the certification process.

Doesn't stop a lot of people using them - at their risk.

[gldgti]

HI .....what do you mean by "mount the wheel improperly" ?

Bolts too long, bolts too short, bolts dry (no thread lubricant), bolts wrong thread pitch, etc. Enthusiastic, clueless people do all sorts of crazy things!

I even saw a video on youtube made by ECS tuning (who sell lots of spacers) about how to install spacers properly..... it was a great video until they got to the part where they put grease onto the mounting flange face of the wheel, spacer and hub.

- Grease on bolt threads - good idea
- A tiny bit of grease on the centre bore - sure, cant hurt but meh
- grease on the surface that actually holds the wheel in place when the bolts are done up? Not a good idea. Seems like whomever made that video is in the camp that thinks the centre hub is the thing that holds the wheel in the right place.... well, they are wrong.

Incase anyone bothers to read this, I'll explain -

The wheel bolts clamp the surface of the wheel mounting flange face to the hub flange face. As you do up the bolts (applying enormous compressive force) the friction between the 2 faces is what holds the wheel in place. The wheel centre bore and the hub spigot should match, just so that the wheel is centered (concentric) with the axle. After the bolts are done up, that spigot does nothing at all to hold the wheel in place, UNLESS your bolts are loose or broken.

So infact the force with which your wheel is held into place on the hub is a direct product of the clamping force (provided by the bolts) and the coefficient of static friction between the wheel and the hub face.

Ergo - if you lubricate that face, you directly compromise frictional force which is holding your wheel in place. You might reduce it by half, or a quarter, or even more. Its nuts.

But - lets say you have a hubcentric spacer. You dont grease the mounting faces. You use the correct bolts, torque them properly.

Now you have the same clamping force holding the wheel, spacer (and lets also say your front brake disk) in place as previously. Theres no difference in the load carrying capacity of the system compared to if you were using no spacers but with the same overall offset.

The clamping force between the bearing hub and brake disk, the brake disk and the spacer, the spacer and the wheel - all equal (all held by the same bolts) and the only introduced variance will be in the coefficients of friction.

Go look up some common coefficients of fricition between various materials to learn more.