new install... what to get

[Bubu]

JBL is not too bad but again it depends what series. Its difficult to simply say that one brand is better than another because most brands make entry level stuff and high end ($$$) equipment too. Also some brands a better known for good quality head units, other for subs or amps etc...

For example my ideal system (without going into specific models) would consist of something like this: Pioneer head unit, Soundstream amps, MB Quart splits and either Kicker or Cerwin Vega subs. Why? Because in my experience with systems these products perform well and have been doing so consistently for years. But again you can get cheap Kicker subs, which may or may not perform worse than other brands in the cheap catagory, or you could go for the higher end Kicker subs like the square Solo Baric series.
Another thing is that some brands are known for power and some for quality. In my experience I have found that Kenwood products have more 'power' but are not as clear as Pioneer.

[Mr ©harisma]

Jaycar have discontinued alot of their subs, particularly the single 4 ohm responce stuff. The remaining stuff sits in the middle upper price range, and often is more expencive than the big name stuff. I just tryed to buy a 10" for my car from jaycar, and couldn't even get a sub under 160. I went to strathfeilds and got a JBL GTO series sub for under $100.

The remier stuff is reasonable, but still not as nice as its competiters, and the TSC is rubbish. ANd Uber rubbish for the $399 some retailers still charge for TSC bullet splits.

They make the nicest SQL head deck though.

Yeah the Pioneer gear is ok but I personally wouldn't buy any of it other than the headunits. They did make the best set of splits that I have heard out of Pioneer but they are only available in the US. I think it summed it up when that is what they put in there demo car rather than what available in Oz.

Hmmm nicest SQL deck, I would have to disagree, the Clarion HX-D2, Blaupunkt Bremen MP 76, Alpine 9987 and Nakamich CD-700II will definately give it a run for the money. None of them are really "the best" just some are better suited to your system than others.

$400 is a thin budget. You could get new:
Fusion 2ch amp $99
Jaycar 4x50 amp $199
JBL / Pioneer / Fusion / Kenwood / Kicker sub $99 or less.

Fley bay sucks balls.

[bboyskidz]

ok so here's an update - i went to jb hifi and got a cheap amp (sony 600w 4ch) with a twin amp wiring kit.

turns out (as i kind of expected) that it is best to get everything at once... my headunit only has rear rca out...

i figure that i have a few options...

1. buy a new headunit with front + rear rca outputs and wire up all 4 currrent speakers to the amp. - buy sub an 2ch/mono amp later
2. buy an rca splitter, buy a sub. run the rear 6x9s and the sub off the headunit's rear channel through the 4ch amp. run the front 6"'s off the headunit.

i think the latter may be the best option for now. the reason i got the twin amp wiring kit is in case i want to put the second amp in later. when/if i get some more cash i think i might buy a new headunit, a 2ch amp and and some new 6's.

would running the front two speakers (only) off the headunit make the output any higher? i'm talking wattage...

[Mr ©harisma]

This is why so many times I say do it right, do it the first time.

Yes I would upgrade your deck to something with 3x RCA out, if you get your butt into gear you will pick up a middle range last year model for very cheap.

May I ask which JB are you going to, Tuggerah or Erina?

Perhaps running only the front speakers off the deck will yeld you more power, would you notice it, definately not. You have to remember that a db is the increment that our ears can notice a change. To give you an idea, to increase the db by 3db, you will need to DOUBLE your power.

[MKIVF]

Hmmm nicest SQL deck, I would have to disagree, the Clarion HX-D2, Blaupunkt Bremen MP 76, Alpine 9987 and Nakamich CD-700II will definately give it a run for the money. None of them are really "the best" just some are better suited to your system than others.

Pioneer DEX-P90RS + DEQ-90 FTW.

HX-D2 wins in the looks department though. Not that the Pioneer is too shabby.

Pioneer also has the flexibility to run mp3 when your tired of chinstroking over your sq.

[Celestine]

Honestly, car audio equipment is not cheap. It if highly unlikely you'll get a 4 channel amp, 12" sub with box for that price. If you were to, you'd be getting no name gear like 'Boss Audio' and other brands that just dont stand up to getting used and abused. Furthermore, a amp that doesnt provide enough power can also damage speakers and subs, so bear that in mind.

Furthermore, you have not specified if you're going SQ or SPL. If you're going SQ, then you're definately going down the wrong path with what you have purchased already. Furthermore, I agree with the TSC gear being rubbish. In fact, I'm bias, Pioneer does not suit my taste thus it's rubbish to me, but might be different to someone else's ears. I personally run Focal's.

Clarion D2 - HOLY COW. That's at least a grands worth of audio gear. No point of having a decent headunit when the rest of the system let it down.

[MKIVF]

Yeah, HX-D2 can be had for around $1,500. Can't play mp3's, no inbuilt amplifier - it really is an audiophile's unit.

You should budget your system around the hard inputs.

How much will the following cost?
Sound Deadening for the front doors
Decent RCA's
Power, ground cables
Rough estimate of an install price based on what you want done - a custom install or a basic install

These are the hidden costs that blow out system budgeting IMO.

[Soundofav6]

Yeah, HX-D2 can be had for around $1,500. Can't play mp3's, no inbuilt amplifier - it really is an audiophile's unit.

You should budget your system around the hard inputs.

How much will the following cost?
Sound Deadening for the front doors
Decent RCA's
Power, ground cables
Rough estimate of an install price based on what you want done - a custom install or a basic install

These are the hidden costs that blow out system budgeting IMO.

THat would be at least $300 all up
sound deadening ~$80. Amp install Pack ~$50 installation. In superman speed 2-3 hours min ie ~$200

I agree with the last 2 posts. Choose what you want now... $400 is not like something you can pull from out of your ass every day... What I mean is, $400 can get you an entry level amp and will treat you for many years to come. Otherwise having 400 bucks spread out, there is no granttee you will like it and it would be a waste . So choose Sound Quality.

Also remember. Products usually sound better in the shop, us Mk3 have poor sound deadening, ie it is an example of hidden costs in order to get to what the products sounded like in the shop.

At the end of a day, it is not like you don't have sound in the car !!! So get a decent amp instead! Other stuff can wait. if you really want a sub, go to cash converters and "borrow" one for 50 bucks. You will probabaly get 20-30 buck after.

Anyhow, with installation, no matter what you choose, I am more than happy to help you out, instead of paying someone 80 bucks/ hour. that is usually 2-3 minimum of labour, just pay me beers. I charge 1 beer/ hour. We both will have a good time. If you want custom fiber glass job. I have enough material to build a small swimming pool. No joke ! Have fun audio shopping.

[bboyskidz]

This is why so many times I say do it right, do it the first time.

Yes I would upgrade your deck to something with 3x RCA out, if you get your butt into gear you will pick up a middle range last year model for very cheap.

May I ask which JB are you going to, Tuggerah or Erina?

Perhaps running only the front speakers off the deck will yeld you more power, would you notice it, definately not. You have to remember that a db is the increment that our ears can notice a change. To give you an idea, to increase the db by 3db, you will need to DOUBLE your power.

JB Tuggerah, but Erina is not a huge trek so I can easily make it there in 20 minutes.

I'm working on a uni budget here so everything needs to be cheap - just not so cheap that I will notice the poor quality. From here on in I intend to build up the system piece by piece so that if I buy something, I buy it with the intention to upgrade.

For example, Instead of the single amp wiring kit, I got the dual amp wiring kit for an extra $20. no point wiring the whole system up with 8 guage when I know I am going to (eventually) upgrade to 4 guage.

Next thing to buy will be a sub and a mono block with a budget of about $500 for those two items alone. I've slapped myself out of the SUPER cheap stuff, but I'm not looking at buying any of the audiophile stuff. As much as I'd want to - it's not worth it in a mk3.

After the sub and mono - a new head unit, then new speakers.

THat would be at least $300 all up
sound deadening ~$80. Amp install Pack ~$50 installation. In superman speed 2-3 hours min ie ~$200

I agree with the last 2 posts. Choose what you want now... $400 is not like something you can pull from out of your ass every day... What I mean is, $400 can get you an entry level amp and will treat you for many years to come. Otherwise having 400 bucks spread out, there is no granttee you will like it and it would be a waste . So choose Sound Quality.

Also remember. Products usually sound better in the shop, us Mk3 have poor sound deadening, ie it is an example of hidden costs in order to get to what the products sounded like in the shop.

At the end of a day, it is not like you don't have sound in the car !!! So get a decent amp instead! Other stuff can wait. if you really want a sub, go to cash converters and "borrow" one for 50 bucks. You will probabaly get 20-30 buck after.

Anyhow, with installation, no matter what you choose, I am more than happy to help you out, instead of paying someone 80 bucks/ hour. that is usually 2-3 minimum of labour, just pay me beers. I charge 1 beer/ hour. We both will have a good time. If you want custom fiber glass job. I have enough material to build a small swimming pool. No joke ! Have fun audio shopping.

What is the best way to do sound deadening? I've seen a few posts about that silver tin-foil looking stuff that goes behind the door cards... How much is that and where do I get it? does it come in sheets or on a roll?

Soundofav6, I'd very much appreciate the help when I get further along in the install. I kinda know what I'm doing but I'd appreciate the knowledge from someone who has done it before.

[MKIVF]

Next thing to buy will be a sub and a mono block with a budget of about $500 for those two items alone. I've slapped myself out of the SUPER cheap stuff, but I'm not looking at buying any of the audiophile stuff. As much as I'd want to - it's not worth it in a mk3.

Entry level Pioneer sub and something like a mtx bridged?

I had a mtx sub and mtx rt202 back in the day - kept me satisfied for a while.

If I were you -

- Head unit
- Sound deaden doors
- Amplifier
- Decent front stage

Then worry about the sub

A decent front stage can still make a lot of noise. Anyway, much nicer to have a gap at the low end then to have a huge gap between a strong low end and mid to high range.

[Soundofav6]

the Tin sheet stuff is Dynamat. It is probably most respectable and most readily avaliable brand. You can buy them from up market audio stores. Usually they come in sheet of about meter square. If you do it right it would give you instant increase in quality and bass.

Well if you need anything give me a call, you have my number.

[Soundofav6]

Oh forgot... one way to sound deaden not exactly deaden but to "fill up" and than add dynamat on top. Apparently this would be very close to work of dynamat and work as support to dynamat. However, this will not stop rattles. I have been waiting for an opportunity to do this.

[glidn]

alrighty first off i would say yes sorry to say you are taking yourself in loops and wasting money frankly.

Alot of people here have given good advice and recommendations. I would suggest you use some of it.

As for the misconception that pioneer TSC or Premier gear is rubbish, if i where you i would look again. The new pioneer TSC170PRS have beaten the likes of DynAudio which are 2 to 3 times the price, and are almost on par with the likes of Hertz Mille MLK165 and not that far off from the likes of Morel Supremo's which are more than 3 times the price.

Specs, Review and Conclusions: Thanks To CarAudio Magazine
Dyn Audio - 73 /100

http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/0601cae_dynaudio_system_240mk2_car_loudspeakers/dynaudio_speakers.html

Pioneer TS-C170PRS - 80.5/100

http://www.caraudiomag.com/testreports/0612_caep_pioneer_premier_ts_c720prs/listening.html

Seas Lotus PS165/1 - 82/100

http://www.caraudiomag.com/reviews/cae_0709_seas_lotus_performance_set/score_chart.html

Morel Supremo 6 - 86/100

http://www.caraudiomag.com/features/cae_0709_morel_supreme_6/conclusion.html

Hertz Mille MLK165 - 87/100

http://www.caraudiomag.com/features/cae_0709_hertz_mille_mlk_165/score_chart.html

Just to shed some light.

But ultimately, you have to figure out what you want from your system, then build towards that. It cost alot of money otherwise, which is never needed.

[Mr ©harisma]

I'm sorry dude but you fell for the oldest upsell in the book. Both JB will try and sell you a 4ga kit even with the small amps. Great place to get a bargin, but they get all defensive if you have a cheaper price somewhere else ( which most the time you will find one ). MKIVF is on the right track. Start with a decent front stage and go from there. Remember a sub is supposed to blend in with the front stage, not the other way around.

Glidn the only problem with that is that it is a personal opinion. If CCA was to do a review it would be different, likewise cnet etc. Those Pioneers are a decent sounding set and definately good value for money. Bring on the 3 way sets I say, I'm sure the Morel 9 3way, Hertz MK3, Oz 180cs, Focal Be would be in the 95's.

[glidn]

Mr Charisma - Yeah i know what you mean

Yeah if only they would finally bring on the 3 way version of those.

Personally i would not put these few brands in the same basket, but there are a few songs that where compared on all of the speakers and coming out all the same.

Bboyskidz - it does not matter what car you have. I know of guys that have $10K - $15K worth of gear in a 1979 Lada, so there is nothing so say putting good gear in your cars is not worth it.

But i guess do what ever you can afford, but do so wisely.