It's time for a major overhaul of Skoda (and VAG) ICE systems

[Maverick]

Also, re. charging: There are excellent reasons it won't charge: It violates the USB spec to pull more than 100mA from a USB port without asking the host controller (which adds a whole lot of complexity and cost to the other end). Devices which blindly pull power could, in theory, damage other devices.

The MDI is smart enough to provide up to 1amp to an ipod or similar device, the problem was that Apple changed the method of charging for newer devices and dropped support for charging on the firewire pins. A new cable fixes the problem or it's easy enough to fix yourself with an adapter cable - heaps of ebay as this caused problems for thousands of products on the market.

[brenno]

If you can do command and control over USB, then great, however you CAN'T do audio over usb (well okay in theory you could stream it over USB, which means offloading the ipod's (typically excellent) ADC to the headunit... but if you wanted to do that, maybe buy a much cheaper hard drive?

I'm not too concerned about sound quality to this degree. As I said before, it's just a standard head unit in the car. They're all pretty horrible. The suggestion of a portable drive is great but it really doesn't do half the stuff a smartphone can do with regards to streaming online sources etc, which I use often.

VW provide both options, so what are people complaining about?

The fact that other manufacturers provide a much simpler setup and that VW's solution is poorly designed and archaic. The fact they offer a sub-standard *option* when others in the sector offer an fantastic solution as standard spec.

Also, re. charging: There are excellent reasons it won't charge: It violates the USB spec to pull more than 100mA from a USB port without asking the host controller (which adds a whole lot of complexity and cost to the other end). Devices which blindly pull power could, in theory, damage other devices.

Works fine on other cars though. What gives?

It sounds like you purchased the optional extension cable that extends the MDI connector.

I'm pretty sure I know what I bought . The extension cable sounds handy though. I guess I wouldn't need it if I could use_a _standard_cable.

Problems charging the ipod etc came about when Apple changed the specs for charging and removed the ability to charge via the firewire part of the connector but this was years ago. There were a multitude of changes and many of the docking devices around where left unable to charge ipods etc. Volkswagen released a new ipod cable to fix this problem years ago but note that this was not a VW problem but was an Apple change.

I was referring to the USB power supply. Why didn't they use the USB power pinouts? Sounds like an elaborate excuse for an issue that other manufacturers have no problems with.

[Maverick]

I'm not too concerned about sound quality to this degree. As I said before, it's just a standard head unit in the car. They're all pretty horrible. The suggestion of a portable drive is great but it really doesn't do half the stuff a smartphone can do with regards to streaming online sources etc, which I use often.

Ok so now you want to stream online sources not just access your iphone.

The fact that other manufacturers provide a much simpler setup and that VW's solution is poorly designed and archaic. The fact they offer a sub-standard *option* when others in the sector offer an fantastic solution as standard spec.

VW's solution may be poorly designed and archaic from your viewpoint but from the viewpoint of the end users and from a technical viewpoint what VW have put in place is second to none from any manufacturer.

Works fine on other cars though. What gives?

Works fine on all other cars or just the select few that you tried with your particular product with it's hardware/software version?

You can ignore the fact that Apple have changed charging specs a number of times if you want but it doesn't change that Apple have done this and it has caused problems with thousands of different products.

I was referring to the USB power supply. Why didn't they use the USB power pinouts? Sounds like an elaborate excuse for an issue that other manufacturers have no problems with.

Maybe because when the first iPoo cable was released Apple's specifications required them to use two connectors (firewire) for charging and they were forced to use another two for charging. It has nothing to do with the connector at the other end of the cable but the wiring on the apple connector end. You can continue to choose to ignore the irrefutable fact that Apple changed the charging specs and with their 4th gen upgrades dropped support for the old standard if you like but it changes nothing. Also they changed it so to actually be able to charge they had to see a signal across the usb data pins.

As for your ridiculous claim that no other manufacturers had problems with this change...

Mercedes Benz - all their ipod cables would no longer work - USD$185 for new cable - Has anyone upgraded their iPOD cable so it will charge new iPODs? - MBWorld.org Forums
Millions of chargers, docks and so forth stop working (including Pioneers) - iPhone 3G doesn't work with millions of chargers - iLounge Forums
Apple screws millions of customers - https://discussions.apple.com/messag...sageID=8430970
And screws more with most hifi interfaces stopping to work - https://discussions.apple.com/messag...sageID=9227714
And so on and so forth but I expect this will fall on deaf ears and once again VW will be at fault......

[brenno]

Ok so now you want to stream online sources not just access your iphone.

It's not hard. Streaming radio via your smartphone is not exactly a groundbreaking idea. It's just something the suggestion of a portable HD doesn't offer.

VW's solution may be poorly designed and archaic from your viewpoint but from the viewpoint of the end users and from a technical viewpoint what VW have put in place is second to none from any manufacturer.

Lol. This little end-user just got told!

Maybe because when the first iPoo cable was released Apple's specifications required them to use two connectors (firewire) for charging and they were forced to use another two for charging.

Did…..you…..mean two for data?

It has nothing to do with the connector at the other end of the cable but the wiring on the apple connector end. You can continue to choose to ignore the irrefutable fact that Apple changed the charging specs and with their 4th gen upgrades dropped support for the old standard if you like but it changes nothing. Also they changed it so to actually be able to charge they had to see a signal across the usb data pins.

OK, so since the changes are made at the Apple 30pin end then the scenario I mentioned above should work. I'll go through it in simpler terms.

Standard USB port --> Standard supplied USB iPod cable --> iPod.

This setup supplies power.

VW MDI to USB cable ---> Standard supplied USB iPod cable --> iPod.

This setup does not supply power.

Now….given all the Apple voodoo pinout trickery and signal across data pins has been retained by the same known good cable, why does this not work? I mean, if it were a standard USB port to standard specs, it should supply power on the pins right?

As for your ridiculous claim that no other manufacturers had problems with this change...

Oh I'm aware that other manufacturers have the same issue. I'm sure there are vehicles out there in a worse position . I'm also fully aware of those that seem to have no problems at all.

I guess this is as perfect a time as any to subtly point out that none of these problems with changes to pinouts would exist if you were able to use the original cable that came with the respective devices

Hopefully it won't be too long until head units start supporting Airplay. Perhaps VW can surprise me. Seeing the iPad being integrated in the Kombi concept car recently certainly raises hopes.

[ben_from_watson]

I'm only new to the forum...but I can't help saying that a lot of music is available through a miraculous invention called radio. When the music sux you press a button which looks for more...

(prepares for incoming)

[sVWatt]

Hopefully it won't be too long until head units start supporting Airplay. Perhaps VW can surprise me. Seeing the iPad being integrated in the Kombi concept car recently certainly raises hopes.

That's where I started way back too. The Kombi with an Apple friendly heart.

Love and Peace.

[Maverick]

Did…..you…..mean two for data?

No I didn't, Apple changed the pins on the apple connector that were used for charging and made further changes to the requirements for charging after that to preclude non Apple chargers.

OK, so since the changes are made at the Apple 30pin end then the scenario I mentioned above should work. I'll go through it in simpler terms.

No they won't.

Standard USB port --> Standard supplied USB iPod cable --> iPod.

This setup supplies power.

Incorrect
- USB port on a computer where there is resistance on the data pins will supply power.
- USB port on a charger from Apple or updated aftermarket supply that has a resister across the datapins will supply power.
- USB port that does not have the data pins connected or has no resistance on there will not work.

VW MDI to USB cable ---> Standard supplied USB iPod cable --> iPod.

This setup does not supply power.

That setup is not designed to work, the MDI to USB cable is only for mass storage devices and not for the control of the iCrud. It clearly states this in the MDI user guide.

The VW MDI to iPoo cable will charge the device and it will control it as well.

Now….given all the Apple voodoo pinout trickery and signal across data pins has been retained by the same known good cable, why does this not work? I mean, if it were a standard USB port to standard specs, it should supply power on the pins right?

The standard USB port on the MDI does offer up 5V and the iTurd can see this 5V however it will not charge because there is no resistance on the data pins. Once again this is because Apple decided to only charge their devices from Apple supplied accessories or via a computer. Apple are the ones who are not following the USB specifications here not VW

Oh I'm aware that other manufacturers have the same issue. I'm sure there are vehicles out there in a worse position . I'm also fully aware of those that seem to have no problems at all.

Everyone who created devices over the period when Apple decided to change specifications had problems, many devices had to be turfed out because you couldn't upgrade or fix them so don't try and make out like some companies had no problems when they all did.

I guess this is as perfect a time as any to subtly point out that none of these problems with changes to pinouts would exist if you were able to use the original cable that came with the respective devices

Yes they would, plug in your genuine Fanboi cable into a standard 5V USB power supply and watch it sit there and fail to charge.

[brenno]

No I didn't, Apple changed the pins on the apple connector that were used for charging and made further changes to the requirements for charging after that to preclude non Apple chargers.

Oh I get it now. Weren't those changes made years and years ago now? Ample time to react I think.

I had no idea the non Apple charger I am currently using to charge my device is not able to charge my......oh wait.

Incorrect
- USB port on a computer where there is resistance on the data pins will supply power.
- USB port on a charger from Apple or updated aftermarket supply that has a resister across the datapins will supply power.
- USB port that does not have the data pins connected or has no resistance on there will not work.

So, you're saying the data pins on the MDI to USB cable are not connected and/or have no resistance? Wow, that is quite telling. I didn't realise it was that easy to implement.

That setup is not designed to work, the MDI to USB cable is only for mass storage devices and not for the control of the iCrud. It clearly states this in the MDI user guide.

Does your user guide have sticky pages?

The standard USB port on the MDI does offer up 5V and the iTurd can see this 5V however it will not charge because there is no resistance on the data pins. Once again this is because Apple decided to only charge their devices from Apple supplied accessories or via a computer. Apple are the ones who are not following the USB specifications here not VW

That's a little strange because I have been able to charge my device on the USB port on all sorts of devices that don't support the connection of iOS devices. The port on the back of a Foxtel box, a cheap Kogan TV mass storage port, a router mass storage port, a Sony PS3 all charge the device. Hell, even the old Brother MFD manages to power a device via USB. These are all devices that have no reason whatsoever to connect to an iOS device, and by your definition should not work, but they do. The VW MDI 'USB' port is the first one I have encountered that doesn't work....not even to supply power.

Everyone who created devices over the period when Apple decided to change specifications had problems, many devices had to be turfed out because you couldn't upgrade or fix them so don't try and make out like some companies had no problems when they all did.

Yes I remember. They all worked fine with the devices they were designed to work at the time though. The changes didn't affect me. Perhaps it was because I used a USB cable on all devices.

Yes they would, plug in your genuine Fanboi cable into a standard 5V USB power supply and watch it sit there and fail to charge.

I've only found one that *doesn't* work

Looking forward to better integration with the next VAG product. Crossing my fingers for Airplay.

[Maverick]

Oh I get it now. Weren't those changes made years and years ago now? Ample time to react I think.

I had no idea the non Apple charger I am currently using to charge my device is not able to charge my......oh wait.

Clearly you're trolling as no-one can be that....

So, you're saying the data pins on the MDI to USB cable are not connected and/or have no resistance? Wow, that is quite telling. I didn't realise it was that easy to implement.

Trolling again, think about what you said for a second. If the MDI to USB cable did not have the data connections connected it would not work at all. What I said was there was not the resistance there that Apple expect to charge and as I also said that adapter is not designed to have a Apple iTurd cable plugged into it

Does your user guide have sticky pages?

That's a little strange because I have been able to charge my device on the USB port on all sorts of devices that don't support the connection of iOS devices. The port on the back of a Foxtel box, a cheap Kogan TV mass storage port, a router mass storage port, a Sony PS3 all charge the device. Hell, even the old Brother MFD manages to power a device via USB. These are all devices that have no reason whatsoever to connect to an iOS device, and by your definition should not work, but they do. The VW MDI 'USB' port is the first one I have encountered that doesn't work....not even to supply power.

Once again you can't even comprehend basic information, you and Apple are a match made in heaven

Yes I remember. They all worked fine with the devices they were designed to work at the time though. The changes didn't affect me. Perhaps it was because I used a USB cable on all devices.

Why don't you contradict yourself again, one minute the usb port is a great idea and the next it's not. Did you think for a second what would occur if the usb port in the device you were plugging in to didn't have the resistance that Apple required to start charging? Oh that's right you had to toss it away. See once again why the MDI is a good idea? Nope well I figured that you wouldn't because you're too busy trolling to see that Apple are willing to change their standards without notice and having an inbuilt USB port on the device you're connected to can mean your're stuffed.

I've only found one that *doesn't* work

Good for you

Looking forward to better integration with the next VAG product. Crossing my fingers for Airplay.

Go and buy one of the other cars that has "better" integration and that lets you use the "cable" that came with your Apple product, I'm sure they will support Airplay

[brenno]

It's not trolling Matt. It's just a different opinion to things. We obviously have different approaches and have different devices. I appreciate you like the system, and I can see it works well for someone like you. It doesn't work well for everyone though. I'm glad this thread popped up, as it seems I'm not alone.

Cheers!

[sVWatt]

Well looks like JetStar love iPads too,...

Australia based Jetstar, the low-cost subsidiary of Qantas Airways, reported in their April 2011 flight magazine that the introduction of iPads as the airlines main source of in-flight entertainment was "imminent". Resultantly, Jetstar have ordered 'Pinnacle' slimline seats manufactured by B/E Aerospace to be installed in the company's new fleet of 44 A320 aircraft; these seats will contain a bracket that lets passengers hang the iPad at eye level. The airline will also retrofit around 25 existing aircraft with the new seats during mid-2011.

Jetstar has customised the iPad's software, developing its own graphical interface and content management system for the device, in order to make it viable for in-flight entertainment. Containing movies, TV and music, the devices are protected by a tough custom case which houses a second battery therefore boosting battery life to approximately 20 hours.
[source: ]Movable Type | Movable Type

[Maverick]

Well looks like JetStar love iPads too,...

They also like hiring pilots with 200 hours fly experience for $57,600 a year and recruiting flight attendants from Thailand on $437 a month so your argument is that the iPad is great and VW should support it because a cut price low end cheap arse airline uses it?

In the Automotive world JetStar sits at the Hyundai/Great Wall level.

[brenno]

Do you think VAG should avoid any further progression on iOS integration with their cars?

[sVWatt]

They also like hiring pilots with 200 hours fly experience for $57,600 a year and recruiting flight attendants from Thailand on $437 a month so your argument is that the iPad is great and VW should support it because a cut price low end cheap arse airline uses it?

Hmm?
Is that like saying VW shouldnt build Polos in Poland or East Crackoff where labour is cheaper.

In the Automotive world JetStar sits at the Hyundai/Great Wall level.

Would you be saying that VW or SEAT / SKODA is the arse end of the VAG group ?
I'd think you'd find Aeroflop would be nearer in accuracy than JetStar.

Did you have a bad experience in an Apple store once ? Did Steve Jobs not return your email ?

[Transporter]

I think that this thread has no further purpose, so I pronounce it as closed!

If you don't like the radio in VAG cars, do what I did in my T5, replace it with the brand and cables you like.