RNS510 vs portable sat nav + ebay listing

[Jetta5]

I wouldn't bother with the RNS510.

Good to hear a different opinion, but you've just made my decision a lot harder. It definitely makes me question getting the RNS510. Can anyone say whether it has a good POI database? Is it easy to find shopping centres, parks etc?

[Jetta5]

If you are upgrading from a Gen2 radio (RCD 310/500) then you will need this adaptor and its an extra $30-$50 for it.

Good to know. Did you mean the RCD500 though?

Hope this info will help you decide.

Yep, it does. Thanks.

[aristocrat]

Good to know. Did you mean the RCD500 though?

Yes, I mean the one that comes standard with the MkV golfs with an inbuilt 6 stacker CD unit.

[FJ Steve]

Have you got some photos to show where you've mounted it? It would be great help if I could see where its placed. Thanks in advance.

I am sharing my experience of when I had an AVC9000 in the car. It's all detailed in that saga that was quoted from golfmkv.com

The magnetic base of the GPS aerial allows it to stick to the frame work above the vent box, but below the dash. Once you have your OEM unit out, you will see where I mean.

Sorry, no photos. (review the thread at GolfMKV.com...plenty of info there)

[aristocrat]

Cheers FJ Steve

[borbor1313]

"Why pay over $3500 for a very basic satnav and a hard drive? The maps are basic at best, and I'm being kind here. I have just been given V3 maps by my dealer and I must say I am soooo glad I didn't pay for them. You still don't get speed displays like you get in german maps"

I agree entirely but you are only paying $1100

"so the estimated time of arrival is always wrong" - incorrect.Usually accurate to within 2-5min in my experience.Sydney traffic may be different but there are 3 settings you can set Slow,medium,fast to refine the predicted time of arrival.


"you still can't voice dial an address like you can in germany" - highly overated in my opinion.The number of times you miss dial or have to repeat the name defeats the purpose - not just in the RNS510 but any system at present. This is no loss .
You can use voice control to change settings ,radio stations ,unit function,GPS input etc with the unit you are looking at.

"you still can't get traffic updates like you can in germany," not really a criticism but a statement of fact. May take 2years to come in a nd then probably only in eastern states initially.

"you still can't add POIs like you can in other portable system like a TomTom"
This is incorrect. You can add your own pois in vcard format. You can also Picture tag them with their GPS coordinates and display the picture on screen.

[Maverick]

For the look of the adaptor, checkout Mav's site. Here's the link:

Upgrading 2nd generation radios (RCD 300, RCD 500) to 3rd generation (RCD 210, RCD 310, RNS 310, RNS 510, RCD 510) antenna adapter | my-gti.com

I intend to fit this myself since its just plug and play. You can checkout Mav's instructions on removing the unit and replacing it with the RNS 510 as well on his site.

The only thing is the placement of the GPS antenna. I haven't got an idea where it is going to fit yet. Some people say its OK to fit under the centre mesh, but its a vent there and if you were to put it there, would make the vent defunct.

If anybody's got any good suggestions on where to place the antenna, would love to hear it.

Here you go. I'll have another guide up later if anyone want's to install one in the rear hatch.

Installing GPS antenna inside dash in the Volkswagen Golf and Jetta

[Maverick]

I wouldn't bother with the RNS510. I have got one in my Tiguan and it is the biggest mistake I have made, ever. Even my dealer advised me not to get it. Half the feature will not work in Australia yet we are being charged the full price.

Why would any manufacturer of a product sell it cheaper in a country because of limitations in that country? By that logic the GTI should be half the price after all we're restricted to 110kph unlike Germany.

Why pay over $3500 for a very basic satnav and a hard drive? The maps are basic at best, and I'm being kind here. I have just been given V3 maps by my dealer and I must say I am soooo glad I didn't pay for them.

The RNS 510 is far from a basic sat nav, it's the most fully featured oem sat nav on the market.

Limitations on maps are out of Volkswagen's control and the blame here should be placed at the feet of the Government and Sensis (Telstra).

You still don't get speed displays like you get in german maps so the estimated time of arrival is always wrong

The estimated time of arrival has nothing to do with the speed display and I find it to be very accurate most of the time.

you still can't voice dial an address like you can in germany

And this is also a limitation on the Australian mapping data, the screen entry and memory for previous destinations makes up for the lack of voice navigating and the voice commands work for the rest of the head units operation including phone, media, radio and so on.

you still can't get traffic updates like you can in germany

Blame the government for this, do a search on SUNA in this forum to see what. This isn't a fault of the RNS 510 or Volkswagen but a major screwup by the government in allowing a company to have access to signal data but only supply this with a limited numbed of GPS units. The system is useless anyway as it's poorly implemented, Google Traffic is far more useful and is updated live.

you still can't add POIs like you can in other portable system like a TomTom and the list goes on and on.

Yes you can and you can add in photos of locations as well. It's very easy to use and they load on via the SD card.

It is a complete waste of money.

Your opinion and you're welcome to it but just about everyone else see it for what it is and that's the best oem sat nav head unit on the market today.

For the price you're paying you should expect alot more and I think the ACCC should look into this.

This is just plain ludicrous, you don't have to buy the head unit and it does exactly what it's advertised to do, please tell us exactly what part of the trade practices act that Volkswagen are breaking by selling the RNS 510?

Perhaps you should complain about Apple locking all their hardware down? Or Ford being the only supplier of new dashes for the Falcon? Or perhaps Volkswagen for selling TDI's that require you to use Diesel and not Petrol as well? All are equally ludicrous (except the Apply one maybe).

What about BMW's much more limited sat nav head unit that costs $5000 and doesn't even have a touch screen? Or Mercedes for that matter?

Yes there are people in this forum who disagree with me but I'm just voicing my opinion. That's what forums are for, right?

Spot on, and I've just voiced mine to balance it out!

[Jetta5]

So, just to take this in a slightly different direction... how are businesses able to get hold of and resell these units so cheaply if they are only supposed to be supplied by VW? Are the eBay units legal? And would the product be any different compared with purchasing direct from VW?

[Maverick]

Re: RNS510 vs portable sat nav + ebay listing

So, just to take this in a slightly different direction... how are businesses able to get hold of and resell these units so cheaply if they are only supposed to be supplied by VW? Are the eBay units legal? And would the product be any different compared with purchasing direct from VW?

Mostly secondhand (pulled from wrecks, downgraded and some may be stolen), reconditioned and new ones sold by Continental (some direct from factory floor ) as VW screwed up and didn't sign an exclusive agreement for the supply of the units.

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[aristocrat]

I am surmising here that, judging only from my experience and from what i can read between the lines, these eBay sellers probably have some deal with the dealers in that, they would order cars with Sat Nav as standard equipment to obtain a better buy price, then pull the units out and onselling them. I only say that because how can an eBayer get so many RNS510 to sell from wrecks? And they all look brand new (minus marking from screw holes that tells that the unit had been in a car). The unit themselves look brand new, with even the protective plastic cover on the screen. There are also genuine VW stickers on the unit depicting its a version C which is not old at all. I doubted that there are so many wrecks or stolen VWs with RNS built in that one guy could get his hands on. Without the screw hole marks, I would think that the guy probably has contacts in the factory whereby some of these units fall off the backs of trucks. The above is purely my guess and summation.

[Desmo]

Just a few points..

Limitations on maps are out of Volkswagen's control and the blame here should be placed at the feet of the Government and Sensis (Telstra).

Incorrect on two counts. VW (well actually Continetal who manufacture the units) use Sensis mapping which has nothing to do with the Govt. Second, Sensis does not produce the final maps, its supplies the map data to the manufacturer to convert and compile. This, and the system it runs on has a large effect on the final product, what it looks like, how it routes, and what features are present.

"you still can't voice dial an address like you can in germany"

And this is also a limitation on the Australian mapping data, the screen entry and memory for previous destinations makes up for the lack of voice navigating and the voice commands work for the rest of the head units operation including phone, media, radio and so on.

This is limitation of the device not the data. Voice dailing is possible using the existing data.

Blame the government for this, do a search on SUNA in this forum to see what. This isn't a fault of the RNS 510 or Volkswagen but a major screwup by the government in allowing a company to have access to signal data but only supply this with a limited numbed of GPS units. The system is useless anyway as it's poorly implemented, Google Traffic is far more useful and is updated live.

ALL Traffic implementations in Australia are below par, and not worth your money. As to your Govt rant (a reoccurring theme) not sure what your point is. Suna for better or worse did deals with state govts to obtain scats data, and in conjuction with incident data is delivered to devices as a traffic service.

Any company can buy a Suna license and implement traffic on their devices. VW made the decision not to. To include traffic in Australia currently a unit must be capable of supporting TMC over RDS. This would appear to be an issue of implementing traffic in a low volume market, and the long leadtimes of incar devices.

Your opinion and you're welcome to it but just about everyone else see it for what it is and that's the best oem sat nav head unit on the market today.

Really, go and look at the new BMW unit, by far the best in terms of features of any unit in car unit in Australia, even without a touch screen.

One final note, the mapping on a TomTom or Garmin is always going to be more up to date than a incar unit, as the time to market is much shorter. Also the likes of TomTom and Garmin can be updated up to 4 times a year. Garmin even sell a lifetime update for $189, thats 4 times a year for the life of the device.

Go and price an update for the VW, BEFORE you purchase a unit, you might get a shock....

[JPH]

This is just plain ludicrous, you don't have to buy the head unit and it does exactly what it's advertised to do, please tell us exactly what part of the trade practices act that Volkswagen are breaking by selling the RNS 510?

After complaining to the dealer and to VW Aust. about the poor performance of my RNS 510, and getting absolutely nowhere, I complained to NSW fair trading. They contacted my dealer and I now have the Version 3 map. It's only been a week, but the new map appears to correct a lot of the problems (but doesn't add any new features). VW sell the map, so they are responsible for its quality (even though ultimately its Senis' fault). I claimed the Navigation system was not of merchantable quality, gave examples of when it had failed operate correctly, and VW agreed and fixed the problem.

[Maverick]

Incorrect on two counts. VW (well actually Continetal who manufacture the units) use Sensis mapping which has nothing to do with the Govt.

The government is involved at multiple levels, Geoscience Australia and Telstra (which own Sensis) along with other organisations like MapData Sciences.

Second, Sensis does not produce the final maps, its supplies the map data to the manufacturer to convert and compile. This, and the system it runs on has a large effect on the final product, what it looks like, how it routes, and what features are present.

Garbage in Garbage out, if the source data is flawed (which it is) there isn't much that you can do unless you spend the time and money to have local people on the ground cleaning up the data which is not something Volkswagen could afford to do given the size of the market.

Take a look at the features that are available in non Australian markets, in particular Japan.

"you still can't voice dial an address like you can in germany"

This is limitation of the device not the data. Voice dailing is possible using the existing data.

The RNS 510 can voice dial in Europe so clearly the problem is with the existing data.

ALL Traffic implementations in Australia are below par, and not worth your money. As to your Govt rant (a reoccurring theme) not sure what your point is. Suna for better or worse did deals with state govts to obtain scats data, and in conjuction with incident data is delivered to devices as a traffic service.

My point is clearly laid out in the Suna threads, Suna received government backing, access and funding and produced a system that forces you to buy brand new hardware instead of using existing hardware. Their refusal to offer a subscription model which would be more profitable for them shows how stupid they are. Only only car manufacturer is offering Suna (Ford used to but dropped it as it's rubbish).

Any company can buy a Suna license and implement traffic on their devices. VW made the decision not to. To include traffic in Australia currently a unit must be capable of supporting TMC over RDS. This would appear to be an issue of implementing traffic in a low volume market, and the long leadtimes of incar devices.

The RNS 510 works fine in Europe including with encrypted services, it won't work here because Suna refuse to offer it as a subscription.

Really, go and look at the new BMW unit, by far the best in terms of features of any unit in car unit in Australia, even without a touch screen.

Completely disagree, I've seen it and it's nowhere near as capable as the RNS 510.

Go and price an update for the VW, BEFORE you purchase a unit, you might get a shock....

$400 is hardly a shock. Go and price a Mercedes or BMW one.

[Desmo]

The government is involved at multiple levels, Geoscience Australia and Telstra (which own Sensis) along with other organisations like MapData Sciences.

Neither Geoscience Australia nor MapData Sciences supplies routable map databases. There are only 3 companies in Aust that supply turn by turn data that appears in navigation devices.

Sensis - (a wholly owned subsiduary of that other PRIVATE entity Telstra, yes that’s right the govt don't own it)
Navteq - (Originally an US company now owned by Nokia) Value add data from PSMA to make a routable database
MetroView Systems - local company who also value add the PSMA data

Yes PSMA is owned by the states and territories, but it was not setup to provide routing databases.

Garbage in Garbage out, if the source data is flawed (which it is) there isn't much that you can do unless you spend the time and money to have local people on the ground cleaning up the data which is not something Volkswagen could afford to do given the size of the market.

Take a look at the features that are available in non Australian markets, in particular Japan.

Garbage, really, what... is your street missing . Do you know what goes into a map database? I doubt you know a Form of Way from a Bifurcation...

VW do not manufactuer the device, this is the norm for the industry. In the case of VW it is supplied by Continental. They develop the device to VW specs, convert the data to work with their hardware and software. They will test a completed product that is to ensure that their conversion has been performed correctly, but thats it. To expect anything else is ludicrous.

Japan is quite unique. There mapping, software and platforms have developed independently to the rest of the world.

Japan even uses a different data standard to the GDF standards used by the major map producers like TA and Navteq. Also, most of the innovation in Japan is in the aftermarket not OEM.

The RNS 510 can voice dial in Europe so clearly the problem is with the existing data.

The TomTom GO series uses the same map data and yet can perform voice recognition functions (TomTom call it voice control). I would suggest the problem lies in the time and cost to implement.

The implementation of voice recognition is complex, and normally requires an accurate phoneme database for each country, otherwise the spoken words are not fully understood leading to errors.

/lesson