RNS510 + audio upgrade suggestions?

[spiff]

Hi all,

I had originally wanted to upgrade the speakers, add an amp and sub to my car when I got it. I also had the RNS510 factory installed because I thought what a sweet thing it was to have all those fancy features.

Since getting my Jetta 1.4 tsi, I've since found out that there are some aftermarket head units which do a better job for audio, and have the same features (nav, bluetooth, dvd, radio, mp3, etc) or better.

I was recommended an Eclipse (~ $2000) headunit, a pancake subwoofer (soundworks is the brand if i remember, but i don't recall a model or specs at this stage), some speakers and an amp (~ $1000-1500 for the others less the HU)

Basically, the tech/installer said that I should probably ditch the RNS510 and upgrade the HU first. He may have a point, but the RNS510 is less than a week old.

1. If i do this, do I lose any features of the RNS510? Are there aftermarket HU's that perform well with the features of the RNS510? If so, why do I seem to see so many people wanting the RNS510?

I'm no audiophile but I do like some good sound quality in the range of music I listen to (dvds, classic, jazz, pop, rock, rock, dance). I'm not as technical as some of you on here, but I can tell when I'm listening to crap or something good. I'm also not a 'doof doof' kind of person (past my teen years decades ago). I guess $1000-1500 is fine for me, but I don't think I would go down the line of $4000 anytime soon unless I could sell the RNS510 to offset the costs and not lose any functionality.

2. Is it worth spending $1-1.5k, or better to just hold off and get a new HU? Any in-betweens if I were to hold off that is worth an upgrade to the current stock setup which would make the RNS510 last a bit longer and give some better sound quality?

thanks in advance for the suggestions.

[hannson]

what about just a Plug and Play amp?

[Swallowtail]

I just had a line output converter, a decent amp (arc audio ks125.4 mini) and better speakers (Alpine SPX17REFs) fitted to my Passat, retaining the RNS510. No sub, but the end result is nice and clean, good tight bass, RRP about $2500 for parts. Retains the great RNS510 head unit (why replace it when it does everything that most people need and works well, plus integrates well as it's been designed to?)

[hannson]

I just had a line output converter, a decent amp (arc audio ks125.4 mini) and better speakers (Alpine SPX17REFs) fitted to my Passat, retaining the RNS510. No sub, but the end result is nice and clean, good tight bass, RRP about $2500 for parts. Retains the great RNS510 head unit (why replace it when it does everything that most people need and works well, plus integrates well as it's been designed to?)

u're my inspiration

i'm trying to do something similar

[benno]

Spiff, with the right gear the RNS510 should be capable of very good SQ. G-rig runs an aftermarket sound processor and some nice quality SQ amps from his RNS510 and I think has a very good sounding system (I've not heard it though).

I don't think the aftermarket head units will really provide the kind of integration and functionality you want.

[spiff]

thanks benno. it's good to hear that from other people. speaking to the guys at the shop (which i read on here have been a decent place to go to cos they know their stuff), i'm a little bit more heartened to hear there's hope yet.

i would really like to keep the rns510 if only because that's wot i spent a heap of $ getting. i think the reason another HU was suggested was because of pure SQ issues. i guess i'm trying to tread the middle ground and wanting to know where that middle ground really is - whether i've got a decent set in the rns510 or whether it's really lousy for sq.

i'll try and find out more about g-rig's setup.

swallowtail. that's a lot of cash to dole out. what was the most expensive of the lot to warrant $2.5k? (that's like about $1k over my intended budget at this point in time).. but never having heard wot the sound is like in yours, i don't want to say that i wouldn't spend the same amount getting something setup if it's really heaps better than stock.

[Swallowtail]

RNS510 sq is fine...

Re my setup, apom has found out where you can get the Alpine speakers for 2 for the price of one set RRP (599 RRP per set). The arc audio amp was $1000 rrp, the line converter (LC6i) about $300. We went with that amp because it is grunty enough yet small enough to fit under the passenger seat easily. Alpine do a similar unit that you could probably get cheaper.

It is heaps better than stock, primarily in clarity, sharpness, sound stage and definition. Bass is heaps better but not huge. No sub in the install as I wanted to keep everything stock-look. Apom has heard my upgrade, so can advise on the end result.

My requirements were: 1. stock look 2. tight and controlled bass not doof doof 3. clarity and definition 4. integration with RNS510 5. similar performance to the factory Dynaudio upgrade.

My upgrade was paif for by the dealer, as they failed to tick the "Dynaudio" box that I ordered and paid for.

[GHW]

Just be careful when buying online. Swallowtails speakers retail at $400 USD (check the alpine.com website) so the price apom says he can get them for means they're definitely not from an authorized reseller.
I'm not saying don't do it but be prepared for no warranty in Aus and be suspicious of why they're so cheap (I've seen knock-offs, recones, ex repairs and all sorts of horrible stuff being flogged in the audio industry)
To get them so cheap I'd be wary and ask a lot of questions or maybe they're legitimately a purchase from a store gone bust? who knows?

[RF 4MOTION]

You have many options to upgrade the sound system without changing the RNS 510. I am nearly finished my system upgrade in a 2008 V6 4Motion wagon.

I have changed the front speakers to high end German Maestro SV6509 ($999), I have utilised the factory locations but have beefed up the original baffle with 18mm MDF and rebuilt the tweeter mount inside the orignal sail panel, completely rewired including running new speaker wires through the original rubber door jamb. I have built a custom fibreglass sub enclosure for the inside rear drivers quarter panel (opp battery) to hold a Rockford 10" shallow woofer P3SD210 ($399) with grille ($69) and trimmed it in vinyl. I am using a Rockford T600-4 ($1299) 4 channel amp to power the front and sub, and leaving the original rear speaker set to run from the headunit.
For connection to the RNS 510 I am using the new Rockford BLD ($249). This accepts speaker level input with one set of RCA (BAL or UNBAL) RCA outputs that can supply up to 11 volts out. This unit also has a signal sense circuit to give trigger out for your amp. VERY CLEAN.

There is a great amp location in the rear, under the original floor. In my case I am flush mounting the amp in the floor in a vinyl trimmed panel. This is the perfect location, near to the battery, perfect for grounding points etc. You wouldnt know the room was there unless you remove the rear floor. I also installed the front speaker crossovers in this area. Again very claen and neat without running cables all over the car.

I have taken many photo's of the build I will post online once the install is completed, next week. Now, how do I post photos on this site.....?

[Swallowtail]

You have many options to upgrade the sound system without changing the RNS 510. I am nearly finished my system upgrade in a 2008 V6 4Motion wagon.

I have changed the front speakers to high end German Maestro SV6509 ($999), I have utilised the factory locations but have beefed up the original baffle with 18mm MDF and rebuilt the tweeter mount inside the orignal sail panel, completely rewired including running new speaker wires through the original rubber door jamb. I have built a custom fibreglass sub enclosure for the inside rear drivers quarter panel (opp battery) to hold a Rockford 10" shallow woofer P3SD210 ($399) with grille ($69) and trimmed it in vinyl. I am using a Rockford T600-4 ($1299) 4 channel amp to power the front and sub, and leaving the original rear speaker set to run from the headunit.
For connection to the RNS 510 I am using the new Rockford BLD ($249). This accepts speaker level input with one set of RCA (BAL or UNBAL) RCA outputs that can supply up to 11 volts out. This unit also has a signal sense circuit to give trigger out for your amp. VERY CLEAN.

There is a great amp location in the rear, under the original floor. In my case I am flush mounting the amp in the floor in a vinyl trimmed panel. This is the perfect location, near to the battery, perfect for grounding points etc. You wouldnt know the room was there unless you remove the rear floor. I also installed the front speaker crossovers in this area. Again very claen and neat without running cables all over the car.

I have taken many photo's of the build I will post online once the install is completed, next week. Now, how do I post photos on this site.....?

Sounds brilliant! Photos you'll need to photobucket them or similar and link from here. Would love to see the photos!

[spiff]

Wow RF_4Motion, I'm sure we would all love to see what you've done. It sounds like a huge fantastic project. Is your gear selected based on matching the RNS510, or do you intend to change the head unit later and just getting a bit more advanced gear now to futureproof?

I wonder how much impact what I was told by the guy in the shop would have on this kind of setup. That is, (paraphrasing) the head unit is the weakest chain in the link.

If these things do work, then I might not consider swapping the RNS510 out at all, and looking at more reasonable options for replacing the other stock bits.

What do you do with them anyway? Keep them or try to sell them? The stock speakers and what not.

[aristocrat]

Couldn't wait to see your project and some photos as I am deliberating an upgrade to the sound system as well. Your photos might just tip me into buying and upgrading sooner than expected.

[GHW]

Wow RF_4Motion, I'm sure we would all love to see what you've done. It sounds like a huge fantastic project. Is your gear selected based on matching the RNS510, or do you intend to change the head unit later and just getting a bit more advanced gear now to futureproof?

I wonder how much impact what I was told by the guy in the shop would have on this kind of setup. That is, (paraphrasing) the head unit is the weakest chain in the link.

If these things do work, then I might not consider swapping the RNS510 out at all, and looking at more reasonable options for replacing the other stock bits.

What do you do with them anyway? Keep them or try to sell them? The stock speakers and what not.

Hi Spiff, if you're concerned about the audio quality output vs aftermarket (and, yes, the eq curves built-in to factory units are all over the shot usually to compensate for poor quality speaker performance) as others appear to be offering up suggestions, here's another alternative for you.
Alpine make a product called PXE-H650E. Unlike the others it isn't simply a line level converter / booster. It can take up to 30v input (meaning all systems including pre or post power amp) it has an analyser to check the inevitable eq settings built-in (as above) then uses a 175 band "ant-eq" processor. This cleans up the factory eq to dead flat. You then use a supplied microphone in the seating listening position and the unit generates specific tones from the speakers to analyse phase issues, interior eq problems and uses another independent 175 band eq to phaze correct, time align the speakers and sub (if you install one, it's not essential for the processor to work) and eq the interior using an Audyssey XT Pro processing chip (Audyssey is a company owned by two guys who are the "T" and "H" in THX) Audyssey will be familiar to those of you with high end home theatre with room compensation, this is exactly what this is for a vehicle instead.
In summary, it fixes the poor output performance inherent in 95% plus of factory systems, corrects the phase issues in the vehicle, auto equalisers the interior and enables 4 seating positions to be programmed in so you aren't the only one with staging and imaging quality, your passengers get it too.
It's very sofisticated, recommended to be installed and tuned by a professional and is a whopping $799 plus installation! not a big investment to dramatically improve an average system. You'll end up with the features and functions you want, factory look and superior sound.
My 2c FWIW

[VW Central]

I am absolutely in love with my new setup. I also have an RNS510, it works and sounds brilliant.

See my post over at GolfMKV: Audio Setup

[RF 4MOTION]

The common trend in car audio is to change the head unit, the rules have changed with vehicle entertainment systems now integrated and sometimes fully integrated into the vehicle. Things like Nav, steering wheel control, multi function dash screens etc. Why change this and spend up to $2000 to get what you already had, and cant integrate as well? $2000 can buy your complete upgrade....

This is why you are seeing more and more aftermarket companies producing OEM integration devices with option that include correcting OEM signal irregularities, EQ, subwoofer control, time alignment, electronic x-overs, channel summing, high voltage pre-outs etc. Such items include the Rockford 3Sixty range, Audison Bit-1, Alpine PXE, JL Audio Cleansweep, Audio Control etc. These items range from $250 - $1500 depending on the level of control, as you can see from the prices they are far more than just your old type speaker to RCA converter.

In the case of the VW RNS510 (without Dynaudio upgrade) it is fairly straight forward. The system has 4 ch high power output that is not altered as the x-overs are on the actual tweeters in the front and rear, no centre channel and no subwoofer. The most important upgrades are amplification and then speakers (you would be amazed what adding power to original speakers and a subwoofer can do for your system). Then of course, upgrading the front speakers first and then (if at all), the rear speakers. The Rockford 3Sixty-BLD is perfect and for $249 will make your factory unit complete.

Overall I think it is important to keep the integrity of the original vehicle intact, factory electronics, only tapping off wires where needed, using factory speaker locations adding sub-bass and amplification WITHOUT DRILLING ONE HOLE and actually making it look factory. Afterall, the car is your pride and joy and you paid a lot of money for it, and when you you sell it you will be thankfull.