VCDS cable from VagDiagnostics.com for AU$121 shipped

[gecko2k]

Can the link in the first post be deleted? I mean it redirects straight to some fake stuff and I guess vwwatercooled is not intended to promote these kinds of things?

It's a blow to the face for all honest buyers on vww and forum sponsors who sell the genuine item

[revivor]

I'm happy for mods to delete this thread if required. Seems to lead to nowhere. I went for Ross Tech since. O

[revivor]

I'm happy for mods to delete this thread if required. Seems to lead to nowhere. I went for Ross Tech since. O

I'm selling my Ross Tech cable if anyone is interested. Bought mine from Tim (DubAddiction) in Jan this yr.
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/foru...ble-69657.html

[RoknRob]

I think greg has outlined my thoughts on this one.
Its one thing to download a movie from the internet. Its another thing to download that movie burn it to a DVD and then selling it to someone at an inflated price. These guys in the UK are taking the piss.

I'm new to this part of the forum, but find the discussion regarding thus moral dilemma interesting.

The question that immediately springs to my mind is how is Ross Tech able to do their thing? Are they licensed by VW, or have they had to hack the system themselves?

This is probably answered on their website, or maybe in this forum, hut a cursory look revealed nothing. Do you guys know, by any chance? I presume they have VW permission, judging by the tone of the discussion, but do they?

[Tim]

There is no copying of intellectual property involved as far as im aware. Im pretty sure its against anti competition laws in the US and probably many other countries for a car manufacturer to lock out an ECU from aftermarket diagnostics tools.

All Ross-tech are doing is creating a software suite that will interface with the ECU. There should be no need to gain permission to do that.
They also arent the only company creating diagnostic tools or software.

[Transporter]

^
Indeed.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

[RoknRob]

I see.

Just playing devil's advocate, but what you're saying is that it is anti competitive for VW to lock out their ECU, but not anti-competitive for Ross Tech to lock out their technology?

I'm sure there is some distinction I am missing.

I get that Ross tech puts in work to develop their thing, but so has VW... why should that be an open box for others to exploit?

[Tim]

Let me try and explain the difference between competition and piracy for you.

Its perfectly fine for any other company to compete by producing their own software package.
Its not ok to copy someone elses intellectual property.

The aforementioned cable is pirating the licence built into the VCDS dongle therefore unlocking the software so that it operates as the fully registered version.

[wfdTamar]

I think the way it works is VW have made the box on the car that the tools plug into. They have made public the way to plug into it. VW have their own tool that connects between car and computer. Ross-Tech have made another tool that does almost the same thing (but presumably isn't a copy of the VW one) using the publicly available info about how the car box works.

But the UK company have lock, stock & barrel copied Ross-Tech's solution.

[Transporter]

I'm sure there is some distinction I am missing.

I get that Ross tech puts in work to develop their thing, but so has VW... why should that be an open box for others to exploit?

Maybe it's this; unless the car manufacturers make the ecu and software that never brakes down, never need update or programming, they have to leave it open. Another way to do it would be to buy every mechanical workshop and every independent mechanic in the world and supply the VW tool. Or make the ECU that is cheap as the replacement globes for your headlight and replacement process just plug'n'play. They can't fix every car in the world in acceptable time when it brakes down, that's why. In USA the VW even have to allow the locksmith to access their immobiliser function to code the new keys, which should be made available in here and everywhere. Why would you have to wait for VW dealer to fit you in?

[RoknRob]

Let me try and explain the difference between competition and piracy for you.

Its perfectly fine for any other company to compete by producing their own software package.
Its not ok to copy someone elses intellectual property.

The aforementioned cable is pirating the licence built into the VCDS dongle therefore unlocking the software so that it operates as the fully registered version.

I agree that the UK company that is copying the Ross Tech cable/software is despicable, but I am certain that VW have put in a lot of hours and intellectual effort into THEIR ECU, too. So what's the difference? Why they should be obliged to just let anyone have access was what I didn't understand. Apple obliges everyone who makes an accessory pay them a licensing fee - does RossTech pay VW? (if they do, that settles the question. If not, well, good on VW for making it "open source".) And most people WILL send their phone back to Apple if there is a problem - although I guess there are third parties out there who might do Apple's work for them, but do they do it with Apple's blessing? Not sure.

On the other hand, after reading the posts from wfdTamar and Transporter (quoted below), it makes sense. I would have thought that VW COULD impose (independent) mechanics to buy their equipment, though. After all, it is their intellectual property. But I see how, in the US anyway, a car could be seen as a necessity (unlike an iPhone ), and therefore, how important it would be to allow others to fix things that have gone wrong.

Cheers, guys!

I think the way it works is VW have made the box on the car that the tools plug into. They have made public the way to plug into it. VW have their own tool that connects between car and computer. Ross-Tech have made another tool that does almost the same thing (but presumably isn't a copy of the VW one) using the publicly available info about how the car box works.

But the UK company have lock, stock & barrel copied Ross-Tech's solution.

Maybe it's this; unless the car manufacturers make the ecu and software that never brakes down, never need update or programming, they have to leave it open. Another way to do it would be to buy every mechanical workshop and every independent mechanic in the world and supply the VW tool. Or make the ECU that is cheap as the replacement globes for your headlight and replacement process just plug'n'play. They can't fix every car in the world in acceptable time when it brakes down, that's why. In USA the VW even have to allow the locksmith to access their immobiliser function to code the new keys, which should be made available in here and everywhere. Why would you have to wait for VW dealer to fit you in?

[johnsonsabroad]

The key differences are:
1. While VW make an ECU, control module etc by simply accessing it, reading, adjusting codes or whatever, you are not taking anything from it and then reselling what you have taken as yours. If you have not taken anything you have not stolen anything - hence why VW don't care.

2. Ross-tech have built software that simply can read the VW data, they are not taking anything from VW. Ross-tech, at some expense I guess, developed a cable that connects to the car so that you can get the data from the ECU, control module or whatever to the computer to be read by their software. I would suggest that even Ross-tech would admit the cable by itself is not particularly special. Ross-tech have however decided, for whatever reason, to put the license key to use their software in their cable. When you buy the cable you are also buying a license key and license to use the software. That license key remains the property of Ross-tech not you, even though you bought the cable you do not own the license codes imbedded within. Similarly when you download the VCDS software you don't own it. By buying the cable or registering with Ross-tech you are provided a license to use it.

So if you make a cable and copy the license code from another cable or otherwise reverse engineer it to get the code and then install into the cable you made, you have taken something that does not belong to you. Yes you have stolen the license code - that is piracy and actually theft in the eyes of the law.

3. VW would be very interested however if you took their ECU, copied the technology inside it and then used that to build many ECUs to go into another brand of car. This is because you have taken something, the ECU technology (which is likely under patents and copyright just like Ross-tech software and license code) that is not yours. Again you have stolen/pirated it.

Ross-tech don't need VW permission or pay them anything because Ross-tech are not using anything that VW are supplying to them nor are Ross-tech taking anything from VW.

There is no theft and VW are not providing Ross-tech with any product, service or technology to use that requires payment or permission.

I spend a bit of time with intellectual property theft in my work.

Interesting subject. Got to go my movie had just finished downloading (I'm kidding).....I am not a supporter of pirating.

[wfdTamar]

They use Torx bolts on their cars, which you can use any brand Torx spanner on. They don't use a custom designed VW bolt head which requires VW spanners to undo.

[RoknRob]

Well, that's about as clear as possible, johnsonsabroad, Thanks for that.

Not sure the use of Torx screws is a valid argument, though. Just because I leave my car unlocked (which is illegal in its own right), I am not consenting to you stealing it.

[joedm]

For what its worth, RossTech has the micro-CAN cable for $250 + $64 shipping.. cheaper than dubadition