VAG 1.8T 20V for under 2 litre class (1170cc)

[sambb]

I have a spare motor on a stand and want to start building it into something fun and a bit different. I'm looking at doing something that'd be eligible for the 0-2000cc class which means either a stroked NA build or a destroked 1170cc turbo build. The parts are around for the NA build but I can't find any info on what it is exactly that the Kronenburg Autosport guys did to create their 1170cc 20V screamer. This is obviously a very long term thing. In the distant future I could put it in my 9N3 Polo if I take it off the road for competition only but and in the fanciful/hopeful future I've always wanted to build either a Clubman or a Porsche 924 which I reckon would be great with either of these. So in the feasibility sense I'm interested in opinions and any leads on where to find more info etc.

sam

[IanPGonzaga]

you can make a 1.9L with a 1.8t block... would just need to open up the bores to 83mm and get bigger pistons/rings then hone.... everything else would just be plug and play unless forging

[sambb]

so proper 1.9 is possible from over boreing alone - no stroker crank etc. That's appealing because if I was to go NA I really didn't want to go even more undersquare with a stroker. So many questions re going NA though eg cams, timing gear, whether single throttle body could be made to work, if there are any exhaust manifolds available etc etc

[Bug_racer]

Why dont you use the 16V ABF engine ? If you need a car then use the Seat Cupra ?
If you really want to use the 1.8T then you can use a crank and pistons from a 2.0 FSI engine . I would be using the whole block from a 2.0 FSI instead since its aluminium and will give significant weight reduction . Then Id mate it to a big port head from an AGU/AEB etc .

[Notso Swift]

I have had some email conversations with Von Kronnenberg about their motors I was trying to buy one which was an early development but it was sold under me to a hillclimber as I was a bit slow
Basically Custom crank and rods, cams, custom cams, fully ported big valve supertech heads
The turbo is a GT30, and the manifolding is all custom and no good for fitting into a chassis car. dry sump required for those revs
They can actually go a bit further than they show in the video...

If you are genuinely interested there are some local suppliers who can do crank and rods. Proper and proven motorsport guys, I am going of memory from 12 months ago but Argo rods ($400 each) and Crankshaft Rebuilders/Auscrank ($4500) and with the crank as the tooling set up it may be cheaper for 2. Roods are not going to be much cheaper, but be prepared for $20k without going crazy

Also be aware if you are running as Improved production there are current mooted drop to restrictor sizes for U2L. but you will still be able to have the same power as a mega dollar NA 2000 but with a heap more torque, but not the previous virtually unrestricted you would get from a 36mm

[sambb]

The reason I was thinking about a <2000cc solution is that the NSW State Hillclimb board was debating changing our road reg classes of above/below 2500cc equiv, to bring them into line with the CAMS/national classes. The proposal was <2000cc, 2001-4000cc and >4000cc classes. It seemed like a done deal but on Sunday one of the Boards reps had a meeting with us and said that he'd be recommending no change - so its all still up in the air.
A proper built 1170cc is just a pipe dream at those figures. Going NA would have been more in my long term budget range and abilities but would also make going 6speed an absolute necessity. The way things look I'll still be thrown in with the V8 boys next year so my mind has turned to rods, 83mm overbore (small 1.9) and pistons. I don't know if the BJX crank which I think is cast will be up to 350hp which may be the eventual max hp. In a couple of years it may just be easier to fit a new Polo Gti's EA888 1.8 or 2.0 and box and go from there.

[Notso Swift]

If they go three classes 1.8 Turbo should come in at 3200, so no V8's (but M3's...)
2500 is not a good split unless they want K24 Honda's to win everything ... or a 1.4 Turbo...
The Alloy FSI motor from the Mk5 golf (non-turbo) would be an option to consider, bit of an undersquare but some Turbo parts would work with it

[sambb]

Yeah its all a bit confusing really. Initially they said they wanted to bring hillclimbs more into line with the national classes. That meant modifying a few classes but for some reason they rolled road reg classes into that thinking even though there isn't a road reg class in national rules - type 1, 2 and 3 etc exist yeah, but no requirement to prove you are registered exists in the national rules to my knowledge, so it was a bit confusing from the start. But when you look at it they'd only be half achieving that anyway because the proposed 2001-4000cc class still wouldn't line up with the national 2001-3000cc and 3001-4000cc classes so go figure. The email that went out had us thinking it was going to be set in stone, but then it went from that to having these road reg classes as 'all drive lines classes'. Tomy thinking that would put me in there against evo's, wrx,s, golf R's, audi S4 V8's etc which was why I started thinking about a sub 2000cc engine. But then at the event another of the board members had a meeting with us (me standing there with all the V8 guys) and they all shot down the proposal - why they would all be worried about a 2-4litres class I don't know but anything I had to say was poo pood and they wanted to stick with <>2.5L. Maybe they were worried about the chance of their class going to all drive lines eg GTR's and decided it was safer to veto the whole thing. The <2.5L guys weren't even consulted which I don't think was fair. Those guys for sure wanted to see a 0-2000cc class because like you say there have been a couple of times where K24 civics and a skoda vRS 1.4tsi (2490cc equiv) have dominated the class. So its still up in the air but the feeling I get now is that road reg classes will remain unchanged which puts me in class commondore for ever more. I'm still competitive on tight tracks - I got second in class at RD6 tamworth and 3rd yesterday at RD7 Ringwood but get smashed at places like Panorama and Huntley - so now I'm thinking i'll do the opposite to what I'd initially asked, a bored and maybe stroked 1.8T.