APR Stage 1 tune

[sparkyboy69]

I'm reasonably new to site, having recently picked up new MK7 GTI PP. I'm looking at getting a Stage 1 tune (software only) and have been quoted around $2K. Id appreciate advice on value for money of quote and appropriateness of Stage 1 tune


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[tigger73]

APR Stage 1 tune

$2k is the going price for APR. They sometimes have sales but price went up recently due to exchange rate.

Value for money is a subjective thing as different people value different things. With APR you're getting backup of a dealer network and local distributor. With other tuning brands there can be less support.

Not sure what you mean by is it appropriate?? But if you want to add 60kW and drop the quarter mile time by a second then the answer is definitely!!!!!

Oh yes usual disclaimers surrounding warranty as you're on your own if you blow anything up. Which brings us back to the first question of value and whether you value all the local testing that APR does.


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[Martin]

There is no doubt that the ECU flash is an simple way to enhance performance,
APR was good value for money when it was $1,400 (often discounted to $1,150)
But at $2K I would be going to one of the other tuners - they are a lot cheaper

I was disappointed with the stage 1 tune, fairly mild (has less top end than stock)
Stage II with the hi-flow cat and down pipe was an awesome update with a significant performance boost across the entire rev range

[bobcrusader]

Check out Revo. They are about the cheapest of the Stage 1 tunes and you get similar performance and support. They also do a free Stage 2 upgrade with their downpipe.

[Creampuff]

Viezu for me, brilliant set up and reasonable price. APR is a joke for the price!

[VW Convert]

Interesting the emphasis that is placed on price whenever engine tunes are the subject of discussion. By purchasing a VAG product we've all to some extent paid a premium, inevitably there are cheaper options out there when it comes to cars.

For example, the OP would have paid somewhere around $50,000 for his GTI PP, he could have got something approaching similar performance from a Kia Proceed GT for around $30,000. The OP chose to pay a higher price because of the perception that the Golf is worth more than the Kia (as would I). There are people who would look at those two cars and not see the value in shelling out the extra money for the VW and buy the Kia (certainly not me).

It's no different with tunes, some may see the value in a higher priced tune, others may not. Horses for courses as they say.

Cheers
G

George

[sparkyboy69]

Point taken G, though was seeking advice from a value for money rather than cost perspective


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[tigger73]

Generally the stage 1 tunes are within a few kW of each other. It may be measurable on the track or a dyno but on the road who is going to be able to notice a couple of kW on the bum dyno???

Generally APR tends to come on strong early and then tail off at the top end. Other tuners will start a little slower and pull right through to redline.

No real right or wrong just each tuner having slightly different philosophy about what they're looking to achieve.


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[cbwolf]

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, you also have the option of going with a tuning box. There seem to be a few popular ones around (DTUK, BurgerTuning JB1, Neuspeed). The consensus seems to be they give you 70% of a proper tune, but you keep your warranty as they're not detectable once removed.

[AdamD]

There are ways that tuning boxes can be detected retrospectively; they're no silver bullet. And because they don't have direct control over a number of critical controls (but instead attempt to 'fool' the ECU into delivering more boost and different timing/AFRs based on misleading sensor values), they're neither as effective or as optimised as an ECU tune.

Many vendors who offer a tuning box have only done so as an intermediary step prior to releasing their own tune, or are specifically chasing the low end of the market.

[Martin]

Generally APR tends to come on strong early and then tail off at the top end. Other tuners will start a little slower and pull right through to redline.

Agreed - that was my experience
The APR stage 2 was a significant improvement, power from lower and pulled hard right up to red line but the mid range torque is huge

[cbwolf]

There are ways that tuning boxes can be detected retrospectively; they're no silver bullet. And because they don't have direct control over a number of critical controls (but instead attempt to 'fool' the ECU into delivering more boost and different timing/AFRs based on misleading sensor values), they're neither as effective or as optimised as an ECU tune.

Many vendors who offer a tuning box have only done so as an intermediary step prior to releasing their own tune, or are specifically chasing the low end of the market.

I never said they were as effective or optimized - i specifically mentioned they weren't. And in terms of being detectable, yes, i suppose if your cars logs were sent back to VAG they would be able to look at things like long term fuel trim and other closed loop logs. A dealer tech is unlikely to be able to tell.

The point is that using a box, your chances of a TD1 or VAG discovering you've modified your car (for warranty purposes) is much, much lower than with a tune. I've never heard, read or seen an example of someone using a box and having a warranty claim rejected. There have even been a number of MK7 Golfs and 8v S3 with the early turbo failures, who were running boxes, that have been fixed under warranty. There have also been a number of examples of cars with a tune, having their warranty claim rejected.

The OP should be aware of all of the options available to them.

[jai]

The BMS JB1 is basically a glorified Boost Controller, so you've still got your ECU performing all the safety tasks as it would from the factory

[AdamD]

The point is that using a box, your chances of a TD1 or VAG discovering you've modified your car (for warranty purposes) is much, much lower than with a tune. I've never heard, read or seen an example of someone using a box and having a warranty claim rejected. There have even been a number of MK7 Golfs and 8v S3 with the early turbo failures, who were running boxes, that have been fixed under warranty. There have also been a number of examples of cars with a tune, having their warranty claim rejected.

There have been instances of warranty claims being denied to cars tuned with a tuning box in the UK. I've not heard of any denials in Australia, but it usually comes down to whether the car is flagged as TD1, or if the ECU has obviously been tampered with. Some cars are coming from the factory now in tamper-proof cages, although apparently the clips/tabs that must be broken to gain access to the ECU can be replaced easily so I'm not sure how effective that method is.

Either way, based solely on the performance of the device and its ability to work more effectively (both in terms of engine management, performance and economy), a good tune will always outperform a tuning box. The advantage of the tuning box is that it's sometimes easier to install, and is potentially less likely to be detectable down the track - although in both cases there are exceptions to the rule.

The BMS JB1 is basically a glorified Boost Controller, so you've still got your ECU performing all the safety tasks as it would from the factory

Any good tune is going to maintain all the ECU's safety devices intact - including knock detection and timing retardation, etc etc. It'll only produce more power by optimising timing and boost when all the conditions are right.

[nat225]

i am always in the opinion if something breaks because you drove it hard with a tune (although the tune didnt directly cause it) during warranty period, it is not fair to attempt making a claim, it is a bit like attempting a fraud (although it is a fine line depending on what caused it, e.g. mk7 r has known turbo issue so the proper tune shouldnt be blamed).

but thats me. when i tuned my car, i forgo all warranty entitlement directly related to the engine. but for other items (power window, reverse cam, etc) i will still claim.

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