Home made Turbo kits.

[DubSteve]

I would say if the car is custom then yes a standalone system would be the way to go, but if your car is stock then a chip would be the way I reckon just for a little something extra.

I have to agree with Golf Houso though a standalone in a NA would probably bring out all its potential

[Golf Houso]

Please... keep me updated Peter Jones
Oh and if you ask nicely on the Tex' people will share their tunes with you

A chip is good on a stock car as Steve said, but if you want to make the most out of the mods, particularly on an uncommon or custom set up, it seems standalone is the only option.

I want to assemble my own MegaSquirt ecu for my 2.0. They're a bargain if you happen to have good electronic and micro processor skills.

I'm still researching the options here.

Pete

[DubSteve]

A chip is good on a stock car as Steve said, but if you want to make the most out of the mods, particularly on an uncommon or custom set up, it seems standalone is the only option.

Don't forget though in saying that a chip can do a bit to other than just give you a little lift it can perform better for your buck.

I have a chip with cams, headers, and porting programs incorporated into it pre by the manufacturer. This was a good option at the time so I went for it.

I know of another VR not on the forums just finished a 15g engine rebuild as a daily running 280 cams. Hes about to put a standalone in there but for now hes running off the stock comp and it moves reallly well!!!

[Peter Jones]

Please... keep me updated Peter Jones
Oh and if you ask nicely on the Tex' people will share their tunes with you

Oh I will, don't worry about that. I'm not one to trumpet stuff I might do (Unlike some others around here ) but you'll read all about it here when it's under way.

I like the MegaSquirt approach to things and the open source nature of the system, it seems very flexible. I need to decide on the rest of the induction approach for the motor but I'm swaying towards forced induction at the moment and watching the turbo vs supercharger debate with interest.

It looks to me regardless of the induction type Fuel injection is the way to go. MegaSquirt is probably the most complex option, but I work with far more complex electronic systems here at work every day and I'm well tooled up for this stuff.

Pete

[Golf Houso]

Don't forget though in saying that a chip can do a bit to other than just give you a little lift it can perform better for your buck.

I have a chip with cams, headers, and porting programs incorporated into it pre by the manufacturer. This was a good option at the time so I went for it.

I know of another VR not on the forums just finished a 15g engine rebuild as a daily running 280 cams. Hes about to put a standalone in there but for now hes running off the stock comp and it moves reallly well!!!

Thats right, the performance of the mods are greater than the sum of their parts, he probably is moving well, but imagine how much better he will be moving when he puts the standalone in

I look forward to reading about your build Mr. Jones. And if it ends up going well, I might just end up buying a mk1 or doing something equally brash and going all out! But yeah... megasquirt is great, if you can get a tune or tuner that is

[BL33SU]

zzzZZZZZ TUTUTTUTUT

[DubSteve]

Thats right, the performance of the mods are greater than the sum of their parts, he probably is moving well, but imagine how much better he will be moving when he puts the standalone in

Thats right he was going to get it installed in the next couple of days so very eagerly excited to see this thing move!

When the time comes to go FI I'm still contemplaiting running standalone or running the chip that is provided at the time I'm still looking at different SC kits however I have narrowed it down to 2 one being the VF kit and the other being the BahnBrenner one. However thats for another thread and another day

[Golf Houso]

zzzZZZZZ TUTUTTUTUT

Shhhssssshh I'll make a midnight club thread soon...

[Valver.]

Well, thats in the circumstances where it isn't tuned properly, find the right tuner and you will never have a problem. And if you do end up having a problem, you can just come back for free to upload the tune. Do you have that level of support from a chip manufacturer?

No way. No matter who tunes your car, it will never, ever - not even close - run like a factory tuned ECU, which has been tested from below minus temps, to soaring heat, tuned in all possible driving conditions, and on engine and chassis dynos, honed over years at a total cost of a few hundred million dollars.

If you can find a chip that simply edits the existing maps to handle boost pressure, big cam overlap or whatever it may be, then that is far and away a better option.

I've tried both a few times now, and driven plenty of cars in similar circumstances and aftermarket ECUs are **** compared to stock ones. No honest tuner anywhere in the world will claim to get a factory-esque car for a $5k ECU install. It just isn't possible.

A perfect example is the Motec Australia Gallardo (the previous one), which they insisted on murdering with a new ECU. It never ran the same, and this was tuned by the best aftermarket ECU manufacturer in the world...

And anyway, who the hell would pay thousands for a new ECU in a Mk5 GTI, for example, when for about a grand you can get a GIAC flash, which has had far more RnD thrown at it in multiple countries of the world.

[Preen59]

No way. No matter who tunes your car, it will never, ever - not even close - run like a factory tuned ECU, which has been tested from below minus temps, to soaring heat, tuned in all possible driving conditions, and on engine and chassis dynos, honed over years at a total cost of a few hundred million dollars.

If you can find a chip that simply edits the existing maps to handle boost pressure, big cam overlap or whatever it may be, then that is far and away a better option.

I've tried both a few times now, and driven plenty of cars in similar circumstances and aftermarket ECUs are **** compared to stock ones. No honest tuner anywhere in the world will claim to get a factory-esque car for a $5k ECU install. It just isn't possible.

A perfect example is the Motec Australia Gallardo (the previous one), which they insisted on murdering with a new ECU. It never ran the same, and this was tuned by the best aftermarket ECU manufacturer in the world...

And anyway, who the hell would pay thousands for a new ECU in a Mk5 GTI, for example, when for about a grand you can get a GIAC flash, which has had far more RnD thrown at it in multiple countries of the world.

Exactly. Why do you think no one ever uses a stand alone ECU on a standard engine to improve the performance of it? HMMMM....

The only time you would use an aftermarket ECU is if you standard engine management won't work with the equipment you are going to use. And for a street car with minimal modifications, the factory ECU will have enough scope to work with that engine.

[Oneofthegreats]

No way. No matter who tunes your car, it will never, ever - not even close - run like a factory tuned ECU, which has been tested from below minus temps, to soaring heat, tuned in all possible driving conditions, and on engine and chassis dynos, honed over years at a total cost of a few hundred million dollars.

If you can find a chip that simply edits the existing maps to handle boost pressure, big cam overlap or whatever it may be, then that is far and away a better option.

I've tried both a few times now, and driven plenty of cars in similar circumstances and aftermarket ECUs are **** compared to stock ones. No honest tuner anywhere in the world will claim to get a factory-esque car for a $5k ECU install. It just isn't possible.

A perfect example is the Motec Australia Gallardo (the previous one), which they insisted on murdering with a new ECU. It never ran the same, and this was tuned by the best aftermarket ECU manufacturer in the world...

And anyway, who the hell would pay thousands for a new ECU in a Mk5 GTI, for example, when for about a grand you can get a GIAC flash, which has had far more RnD thrown at it in multiple countries of the world.

Spot on & definately has alot of merit to it.

I do have to say, has anyone been in a car with an Autronic on autotune?

It's unbelievable.

There were a couple bloke's down here who fitted it to a blown small block which was used as an everydayer too.. They wired it up, done a basic tune & ran it over the space of 3 month's. It went from a 10.40 all the way down 9.70 & then onto a 9.20 with open pipes. They didn't touch the tune at all. They dialled in what they wanted the A/F ratio to be & let it do it's thing.
Work's just like a factory ECU, only in wide band.

[ScienceVR6]

wow, i didn't realise this thread was still active!

I'm looking at a wolf 3D to do the computing, but still undecided on turbo or supercharger. i may just do the computer and a set of cams.

[Valver.]

wow, i didn't realise this thread was still active!

I'm looking at a wolf 3D to do the computing, but still undecided on turbo or supercharger. i may just do the computer and a set of cams.

Don't do it, the V500 is crap and more expensive than an Autronic SMC (an SM4 is only 300 more in itself!)

Yanks seems to get top results just using a C2 chip

[abreut]

I have heard about the autronic auto-tune but never heard how good it was. I mean the auto-tune of fuel, yes a computer could easily do that for different loads with a wideband, but fuel plus ignition, a smart computer probably could that as well with knock control but how well. I know for a fact that my motor produced power up until a certain ignition advance and after that the power dropped off and that was before it started pinging. I don't know if an auto-tune computer would know when to stop advancing, would it just go until it pinged and then back off a little? And surely they would have to verge on the side of caution too. They wouldn't want guys blowing up engines when opting for cheaper lower octane fuel etc.

Saying that I would have bought one of those autronics if I didn't decide to exercise some financial restraint. For initial setup, man would it have made things easier. The amount of times I fouled plugs initally trying to set my haltech up sent a shiver up the spine seeing as though it was a completely rebuilt engine. It felt like I was just washing the bores on a virgin engine!

[Oneofthegreats]

I forgot to add that the "autotune" is for fuel trim only.

You still need to input a timing map. NA is much easier, but a general rule of thumb for a starting point is for every pound of boost, you pull one degree of timing. Sometime's it can be around .7° for every psi.

Eg. Hypothetically you have a advance curve like this with 25psi dialled in & running on PULP 98

You pull about 1° of timing for every pound of boost.
(A 20VT can take around 1 degree pull until 12 lbs and then I follow the curve minus 12°) Great engine!

Idle - 08°
1000 - 09°
1500 - 16°
2000 - 20°
2500 - 25°
3000 - 30°
3500 - 35°
4000 - 36°
4500 - 36°
5000 - 36°
5500 - 37°
6000 - 37°
6500 - 38°
7000 - 37°
7500 - 36°

So if you've dialled in 25psi & hit's that @ 5000rpm , your timing will be 11-12° BTDC @ 5000rpm

This is copied form a Autronic dealer

AutoTune

The AutoTune will tune the engine with no input from the operator. To do this there is a closed loop target air fuel ratio table, that you edit and input the air fuel ratios that you require at the various engine RPM and Load points .

Autronic exhaust gas analyzer is required to be connected to the ECU O2 I/P. This input is configered as the actual air fuel ratio. As the engine is driven through the various RPM and Load points the AutoTune algorithm will adjust the volumetric efficiency entries in the main fuel map to "Hone" in on demand air fuel ratio.

During the AutoTune process you do not need to engage with the keyboard.

When tuning is complete, you can go directly to the Air Fuel Ratio table and enter the new A/F ratio at any RPM/Load site. Providing you make no changes to the physical engine, intake or exhaust, then you need not alter the volumetric efficiency entries.

If you do modify the volumetric efficiency then you will need to use the analyzer to AutoTune the engine again.

The AutoTune is much faster then a good operator. It is not possible to manually tune as quick as the AutoTune. A typical engine will take less than 20 minutes to fully map on a engine dyno.

I have tuned many engines in my business and it is AutoTune is an indispensable tool.

Overview

Autronic "AutoTune" software provides rapid hands-tree tuning of Engine Air/Fuel mixtures. This automated operation frees the engine tuner, allowing total concentration on safe engine/dyno operation. On road tuning of motor vehicles is even possible.

This software uses a complex combination of math, including statistics, trigonometry and fuzzy logic to intelligently adjust the fuel delivery tables. Initial tuning is rapid usually occurring within 1 second. High precision can be achieved by allowing the "AutoTune" to operate for an extended time at each engine operating point. The operator has control over the balance between tuning speed and accuracy. Accuracy is ultimately limited by the accuracy of the attached Air/Fuel ratio measurement equipment.

The program provides visual indication of the tune status. Any programmable alarm conditions will indicate and sound if requested in status bar. Automatic and manual storage of tune status allows the user to monitor the tuning progress even if undertaken in several sessions. Tuning usually proceeds 2 to 5 times faster than possible by manual means. Fuel savings of as much at 90% have been reported. The considerable savings in engine life are obvious.

This program also has elaborate diagnostics facilities and allows simultaneous operation of the ECU internal data logger and external PC data logging.

Versions will soon be available that have live engine operating data graphs while tuning, and a live 3D graphical presentation of the tuning process.