Throttle Bodies

[Valver.]

My ABF that was in the blue Mk1 went really nicely with a good head, basic cams, extractors and a chip to suit. 112kW atw IIRC (will confirm tomorrow).

[Valver.]

that'd be easily accievable on a 16v on twin webers mate, just look at what Preens doing with his engine, that should put out over 200hp i recon

150kW is a lot harder to come by than US dynos show, believe me!!

[Preen59]

150kW is a lot harder to come by than US dynos show, believe me!!

Yeah thats very true. Also depends on the altitude its dyno'd at. Benny is getting new a wheel dyno in the new shop so when i get the donk done i'll tune it on there first up and get some figures, keeping in mind we're like 850m above sea level.

The other thing is too, have you ever driven a car with anywhere near 200hp and less than 900kg?

You're talking about a bloody fast street car. My mate has a 200hp atmo (2l pinto engine) Mk1 escort road registered race car, and it breaks traction in third gear at 50kmh with grooved Avons. It weighs about 900kg and its FAST. hits about 235 or a bit more into turn one at eastern creek, it's as quick as a modified EVO 7 in a straight line.

Heck, my little 1.7 donk was a quick little engine, and it only had (i reckon) about 130hp.

[peedman]

My mk1 with a stock kr with efi scared the cr ap out of me, i cant imagine even more power in it. One thing is for sure tho, it needs better brakes and i need bigger biceps to turn that steering!!

[DubSteve]

and i need bigger biceps to turn that steering!!

BUHAHAHAHA sorry but thats a classic call

[GoLfMan]

150kW is a lot harder to come by than US dynos show, believe me!!

of course it is in an NA 4 banger.... but more than achievable

[evorobin]

i need bigger biceps to turn that steering!!

I'm rife to tell weads to head to the gym but I feel like dennis the menace reading that

[velly_16v_cab]

most of the track guy in the uk run 2.0 16v's on k-jet. most of them putting out 180bhp+
a few are runningiTB's but not much gain (if any) over the k-jet boys...but they do sound nice lol

[Oneofthegreats]

that'd be easily accievable on a 16v on twin webers mate, just look at what Preens doing with his engine, that should put out over 200hp i recon

I've got to say Josh, if you reckon it's that easy to make 200hp from a NA 16V, everyone would be doing it incl. you.

It's much harder than you think.

For eg. Valver's ABF, with a bit of work, good part's & some coin thrown at it made near enough 200hp, but it only sound's easy!
I'm sure there was abit of tickling it here & there.

Before I start this, my comment's are for only VW's. V8's are totally different story. "There's no replacement for displacement"

Atmo power cost's way more to do than FI.
Also with NA power your limited by the amount of power you can get out of it, with the part's you throw at it, the person at the end of a die grinder & how deep your pocket's are.
Also how good the combination is too, cause alot of people do get it wrong & then your the one out of pocket.

That's why I like FI. Simple home made turbo kit can s#%t al over a big dollar NA engine, with heap's in reserve.

Eg. I could put a T3 60 trim .48ar turbo on my 8V with some Turbo K-Jet stuff off a Porsche, Volvo (which is only the fuel head & warm up reg. which I already have)etc., an intercooler on a stock engine with mild boost upto 11psi & make 200+hp with a nice broad torque curve. You won't get that with a highly tuned NA engine.

The reason why I don't, I'd rather spend the money on the chevy truck or the 20VT.

Also, alot of people bag the K-Jet. Why?? Cause they don't know the first thing about the system or how it work's.
Mercede's used it right upto the mid-late 90's from memory. Must be a real s#%t system.
The only down side I can think of. It look's like an octopus is having sex with your engine & it hate's water!
There's setup's out there pushing 300+hp on K-Jet VW engine's. You've just got to think outside the square & use what's available. eg. one bloke used a fuel system of a Merc V8 to fuel his 8V. You could use Porsche turbo stuff etc. K-Jet is K-jet. It's all work's the same, just with different fuelling capabilites.

Back on topic -
I reckon ITB's are a waist on a street/race car, even though a set of weber's are basically the same at a third the cost & without the electronic's. Alot of outlay on the part's, tuning etc for bugger all in return. Listen to the people who have gone down this path & they'll say the same.

I'd even go a holley over a set of ITB's, but not over a set of DCOE's.

[Water Boy]

Getting over 100kw at the wheels out of an NA 16v is the way to go

[Oneofthegreats]

Getting over 100kw at the wheels out of an NA 16v is the way to go

So why doesn't everyone do it.

It must be pretty easy if everyone say's so.

Just out of honest interest James.

How much hp is your dad's destroked 1.6L? 16V making & how hard has it been to make that power & what cost's have been involved?
I reckon there wouldn't be much change out of $10+k. The MoTec alone is should be over $4K tuned.

[Water Boy]

Mate only my Dad is stupid enough to do it... Its not easy and he says the only reason he has done it is for the enjoyment, the fun he has as he calls it "Bench Racing" He spent around 5 years plus most weekends out in our shed and going to different places sourcing bits n pieces...

My Dad says he had just as much fun getting the numbers on the dyno as hitting turn one flat out

And Tim money wise its not cheap so my Dad did it over a long period and apart from machining he did most himself... Luckily Dad has some good friends Mark and Ross who help out a heaps ECU wise...

Also my ol mans 2 mates are super keen and both helped heaps...

An all in afair most weekends... But it shall all pay off next weekend as there is a tune map and we r off to the Island for a state race

[Oneofthegreats]

I'm didn't mean it to come across to have a go at anyone & I'm sorry if it did come across like that.
I just get alittle peaved sometime's about some post's, on how easy it is to make these great power figures.
Like I said, if it is that easy, everyone would be doing it.

I just needed an example to show that it isn't as easy to make NA power as alot of people make out & your dad's 16V came to mind straight away as he'd told me some of the spec of the engine & what's he's done & been through to achieve it.

I can understand about the fun factor, as I cop alot of flack from my friend's about playing with VW's & how much money I spend on them.
I could have built a 632ci 750+hp PULP engine in my old black ute with the money I've spent on VW's. (Come to think of it, why didn't I???? I did want to do it at one stage )

[Water Boy]

Mate im taking no offence at all... My ol boy shares your pain people talk about getting big numbers out of their cars ect but they dont actually understand its a load of work... My ol man has people ask why? He says bcuz he can, and its keeps him out of the pub

Nah its not easy but if u wana give it a go hell year go for it...

Next step will be my engine and we have a few good bits for that aswell and the TDi we hope to build soon

Its all $$$$ though... I need to become rich

[abreut]

Forced induction is the cheapest and easiest way to make power. My supercharged golf which was my first real experimentation with forced induction, made 112kw atw (exactly the same as your 16v valver!). That was with a $300 supercharger, an AGG 8v (worth very little), an $800 microtech, lots of bits and pieces from the wreckers and a crap-load of backyard fabrication. Seriously that setup was very cheap. And the torque! It was just ridiculous gobs of off-idle stump-pulling grunt.

Saying that I have a soft spot for NA and I do have more respect for the man who can get good power out of an NA setup - even though it might be 100hp down on some turbo setup. Horsepower really becomes a meaningless quantifier when you can make over 500whp on a 4 cyl but when you look at the power curve you have a ridiculously small high rpm powerband - useless! And when it comes on its like Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde - totally non-linear. You can't call such an engine a good engine, not for anything where you actually need to regulate power delivery with a degree of skill. If you can make a great engine that propels that puppy when and how you need it, and it is actually fun to drive for whatever application you have chosen - then go for it!