Golf R APR tune issue DSG

[JAE_73]

A few weeks back I upgraded from APR stage 1, into stage 2 on my 2011 Golf R... Adding HPFP, Carbonio intake, APR down pipe and revised APR tune.

When I initially added APR stage 1 tune (Easter sale 2012) the Golf had covered about 7,000km. I know some members have reported issues with their DSG, but up until stage 1 tune I had no problems at all with the transmission. 2 days after going stage 1, I encountered my first issue. Cool morning (10 degrees) hard acceleration in "S" and just before the 2nd into 3rd gear change, the car hit the rev limiter... Gurgled... Then shifted into 3rd gear.

This new "feature" has occurred 1/2 doz times over the next couple of months - all the while my APR dealer volunteered that this is quite a common fault in stock Golf cars (regardless of tune)... ?

Mid June, my APR dealer confirms that APR Australia will soon offer a DSG fix... So I step up into stage 2.

The upgrade is tremendous, great throttle response, quick off the line and nice growl from the DP under load... But the occasional DSG / rev limiter issue remains - in both "D" and "S"...

My APR dealer now has a solution at hand from APR Australia... Retune the DSG to accommodate the increased torque of the modifications... Easy fix for a special price of $1200.. I don't know about other Golf owners, but the idea of spending this kind if money (when I've already coughed out $5k), and still looking to add an upgraded APR FMIC, really PISSES me off.

If APR cannot offer a tune that works within the transmission parameters then they should adjust the tune.... or pre-warn their customers to make an informed decision before buying the tune .... Or fix the bloody problem (not try & keep a straight face and charge another $1200).

Apparently GUY from APR Australia was going to call me last week to discuss, but maybe it's easier to keep silent and hope other customers are blissfully ignorant.

I'd love to know if other APR customers have encountered DSG issues after moving to stage 1 or 2... is this just an APR issue and should I be looking to find myself a better alternative?

[Candyman]

Not a common fault in stock R's afaik

Sounds like some issues with the torque limiters parameters not correct ?

Hope it gets sorted mate

[Ryan_R]

In a similar boat unfortunately. I could spend some money on a DSG tune but not that much. At least not without seeing the benefits for myself.

[boltor]

I may have this wrong however some tuners are offering a DSG tune as part of the ECU tune package. I understand that this is aimed at changing the torque load limiters - would this fix the issue you are referring to or do I have this completely wrong!

[XQUIZT]

Doesn't sound good at all. If the APR tune is the cause, then shouldn't it be rectified free of charge?
$1200 is a bit rich,..
Hope it works out well for you..

[TRGTI]

typical apr, IF you don't use their overpriced parts, they have a scapegoat if your car doesn't perform as advertised.
and to get the most out of your car you NEED to upgrade to all apr parts otherwise they charge you for updated tunes.
sorry you had to learn the expensive way and hope it gets sorted for you.

[DNA Tuning]

Anyone experience this issue using a different brand of tuning? Never encountered it personally; I assume this can be fixed in the ECU tune rather than the DSG tune.

I take it they will not refund you... so it would be hard to switch brands now...

[Xciteu]

Bummer,sorry to hear that dude. If it's definitely a problem with the tune and not a fault in the box(which it sounds as it is), then demand your money back if the only way it will be fixed is with another $1200. That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard of! Not starting a tuning war here,but ANY other tuning brand would probably not put you through that.

[AdamD]

Cool morning (10 degrees) hard acceleration in "S" and just before the 2nd into 3rd gear change, the car hit the rev limiter... Gurgled... Then shifted into 3rd gear.
<snip>
But the occasional DSG / rev limiter issue remains - in both "D" and "S"...

You've described the problem as a gurgling and a rev limiter issue. Might it be this problem (that has affected many stock and tuned Golf R customers)?:

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-31.html#post602058

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-55.html#post669378

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-50.html#post652223

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-30.html#post601637

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-77.html#post736484

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-52.html#post662133

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-49.html#post651620

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/dsg-problems-complaints-dislikes-loveit-41977-63.html#post706754

As you can see, there are many examples that occur under varying operating conditions. It certainly sounds to me like it could be related. If it is this issue, then it's not inherently related to the tune at all. There may even be a revised DSG software flash available for it from VW - have a read through the above thread. Either way, I wouldn't be rushing out to spend your hard-earned on the APR flash to cure this fault.

[Candyman]

The issue he describes is very different to a false neutral though ?

[AdamD]

The issue he describes is very different to a false neutral though ?

Thus far it's been described as a "rev limiter issue". Could well be a false neutral / clutch engagement / failed shift. Even if the symptoms are not exactly the same as what many others have described, the false neutral problem has affected different people in different ways.

[Candyman]

He had no problems until the tune was installed

Strange coincidence ....

[Guy_H]

Jase. are you the customer of DNA Performace? - If so, Andrew tried to contact you on Monday.

Anyway, it's got nothing to do with the software or modifications, and a DSG flash wont fix what you are describing.

If you contact DNA Performance, they will carry out diagnostics (same as a VW dealership) for you.

As Adam has described above, "false neutrals" which can cause the engine to rev past the DSG limiter is a pretty common issue (has been since the DSG was introduced back in 2003) and is not isolated to modified cars. The Mechatronics basic settings is the first step that dealers carry out depending on diagnosis.

Give us a call in the office when you have time & we will run through any concerns with you - 1300 730 949

[AdamD]

He had no problems until the tune was installed

Strange coincidence ....

We still don't know the underlying cause of the "false neutral" DSG issue, but in the majority of cases it has happened when there's been a lot of torque running through the gearbox: hard out of second-gear corners, powering out of roundabouts, etc. Extra torque can reveal faults that had thus far been hidden. Tunes of all flavours are notorious for revealing areas where the underlying car may not be 100%. It's best not to assume the tune is at fault until there's actually some genuine (non circumstantial) evidence to back it up.

[Candyman]

I had a false neutral a few thousand km after buying the R

Was not under load but a gear change between 2nd and 3rd going across a speed bump at low speed, moving the lever from D to manual and back fixed it

I demanded replacement of the mechatronics (and dealer obliged)

If an issue doesn't occur stock for 7,000 km and then occurs frequently after a tune is installed what is the cause ?

An underlying fault or the tune ?

Whatever it is, hope the guy gets support to identify the issue and find a solution

The odd false neutral, fine but repeated occurrence would concern me.