Golf R - APR Stage II+

[halojump]

Well I took the leap about a week ago now and went the full APR Stage II+ ...

• Replacement Exhaust and Downpipe
• Replacement Intercooler
• Exchange Fuel Pump
• ECU Upgrade
• Carbonio CAI and
• Engine Mounts

It takes a few days I think to bed down, when I picked it up last week I could feel it was quicker and the exhaust had an ominous growl...

After a few days however everything just seems 'better, faster, stronger' - the take off is phenomenal and the exhaust noise is just so very sweet. Its a little noisier than stock, but not too much.

Did the dyno yesterday and was managing 176kw @ the wheel, so with a 20-25% drive-train loss it makes for some pretty respectable figures. Mind you it was pretty warm and humid here (in Brisbane) yesterday, so it may go a little better in cooler, dryer conditions.



I cant say enough good things about the excellent service from Guy and James @ Harding up here in Brisbane. They have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all things VAG and Porsche and they are more than happy to answer any questions. The guys around the corner @ Newman Avenue were great doing the dyno too.

I have some pics, courtesy of James from HP of the installation and details

[noone]

Looks good. Those numbers look pretty average for an R with a few grand in kit, maybe I've been playing too much Gran Turismo... Any plans for a bigger turbo?

[SilvrFoxX]

OK I need some help understanding why after a tune you get 176kw when i is supposed to be 188Kw stock.. anyway I will let the smart folk explain..

[Tim]

Looks good. Those numbers look pretty average for an R with a few grand in kit, maybe I've been playing too much Gran Turismo... Any plans for a bigger turbo?

According to the quote below the figure is less than expected for a stage 1 golf R. Who knows though.. Dyno runs are difficult to compare. Ambient temp seems to be 22deg so doesnt really imply a super hot day unless the reading isnt correct which could be the source of a few kw loss due to an incorrect correction factor being applied.

Golf R's with stage 1 have pulled around 180kw's wheel, and with the addition of a fuel pump (APR stage 1+) make around 188kw.

[Corey_R]

OK I need some help understanding why after a tune you get 176kw when i is supposed to be 188Kw stock.. anyway I will let the smart folk explain..

188Kw is a flywheel rating (engine dyno). The stock R would be much less at the wheels.
Stage II and II+ is not about large peak increases over Stage I (or even really any peak increases), but increasing the width of the power band etc. So you can't expect much more over Stage I. Having said that, 176kw is lower than I'd have expected, but as Tim mentioned, dyno's have big variations on results (which makes them really only useful for before/after tests, or comparison of different cars on the same day) and if the ambient temp was incorrectly set then the results would be further wrong.

[REXman]

OK I need some help understanding why after a tune you get 176kw when i is supposed to be 188Kw stock.. anyway I will let the smart folk explain..

Because once the lovely engine has produced the power its able to (a given, X) that maximum is created by the engine. By the time that same energy or power goes through the drivetrain, so gearboxes, diffs, moving parts etc. and finally goes through the hubs and into the wheels, there has been some energy lost moving all of these different parts.

Once the power gets to the wheels, you then have to compensate again, for (some) loss of traction between the tyres and and the rollers on the dyno.

So all of these moving parts and frictional surfaces create a different figure in power produced at the engine, and then the wheels.

HUB Dynos, are dynos which require the taking off of the wheels from the car, and therefore suffers from less energy loss, and therefore more repeatable numbers. though, the give very inflated numbers

(i.e. a MY09 WRX with a flash tune makes 205KW at the wheels/Hubs) where realistically it probably makes 175kws.. at the wheels..

I believe a stock R makes around 150-155kws at the wheels..

[SilvrFoxX]

Thanks folk I get it now.. so the measure being provided by the manufacturer is at the fly not the wheels

[elisiX]

That certainly seems low - for the $$, i'd have expected better numbers.

At the mainline dyno day I attention (IIRC), there were Stage II and II+ TTS' doing 180-190KW at the wheels.

And that was a stinking hot ****ty day. Guy was in attendance.

[hooba]

That certainly seems low

The number of 175Kw at the wheels is only relevant when you have a valid number to compare it against, that is it is all relative. As Corey explained, the numbers become useful when they are taken on the same dyno in order to provide a comparison of before / after (oh, and for bull****ting at the pub afterwards).

[Corey_R]

Yeah....

In the end, I don't really care how many killerwasps a car has. "Real world" performance is what matters to me. Halojump's car may have measured 176 killerwasps on that dyno on that day, yet put a GPS performance computer in it, and it'll do 0 to 100 km/h in about 4.37 seconds! (based on Fab's car which is similarly configured. 4.37 seconds is quick in any language. HSV's with 300 killerwasps can't do that!

[Maz]

Thanks for posting the pic's and dyno print out...I'm trying REALLY hard to avoid a tune for the first 12 months...

[Capercat]

A little bird once told me to bypass Stage II & go straight to Stage III to make it worthwhile, otherwise just stay with Stage I, hope this makes sense.

[REXman]

Yeah....

In the end, I don't really care how many killerwasps a car has. "Real world" performance is what matters to me. Halojump's car may have measured 176 killerwasps on that dyno on that day, yet put a GPS performance computer in it, and it'll do 0 to 100 km/h in about 4.37 seconds! (based on Fab's car which is similarly configured. 4.37 seconds is quick in any language. HSV's with 300 killerwasps can't do that!

If Fabs car really does 0-100 in 4.37 secs and the R weighs around 1500kgs.. it better have at least 175KWS or something is not right.

I dont know what these "braggin rights at the pub" business is about.. i dont really drink.. and If i do, its not talking about kilowatts!

[REXman]

A little bird once told me to bypass Stage II & go straight to Stage III to make it worthwhile, otherwise just stay with Stage I, hope this makes sense.

Depends what you want. And can afford!

Stg II, regardless of average return of power (If we must be like that - and we dont have to be ), will still sound better and give more enjoyment than STG 1.

[Corey_R]

A little bird once told me to bypass Stage II & go straight to Stage III to make it worthwhile, otherwise just stay with Stage I, hope this makes sense.

Stage II costs as little as the ECU and the Downpipe (which is $1495 + $2495 for APR gear at RRP, i.e. not during a sale). You can of course add full exhaust, intercooler, intake and fuel pump (Stage II+) if you'd like.

Stage III costs around $35,000. Sure, the actual Stage III Kit only costs you $11,250. But then you have to add new wheels (+tyres), brakes, suspension, sway bars, full exhaust, clutches, diffs, plus have your car engineered, to handle the 315kw/515Nm (at the flywheel) that the kit outputs, and still be road worthy etc. Don't get me wrong, Stage III is AWESOME! But it's also about a Polo's worth between the Stage II and III costs. Check out the various magazine wrapups of Stage III cars (Motor Hot Tuner Challenge, or some older articles available in PDF form on the APR Australia site).


Also, ALL of the Stage II(+) parts are utilised for Stage III. So there is no wasted investment in going Stage II.