Tuning software

[Lonewolf1983]

I've done some research everywhere I can think, but clutching at straws means im posting here.
Car is a Bora v6 4motion.

I'm wondering if anywhere in the world you can buy software to tune the factory ECU. This functionality is available for other cars (e.g. Flashtune/LS1edit/Nistune etc).
I dont want a generic chip or flash tune, I want something that my tuner can run on the dyno and play with rev limits, fuel + ignition, VVT mapping etc.

I know such software exists as tuners overseas can do custom tunes, but no-one I know if in Australia, let alone Perth.

Cost isnt really a huge concern, as the alternative is a standalone which is likely to cost me in the region of $5k, and may not play nicely with the rest of the cars systems.

Anyone know of any options?

[parso_rex]

I've done some research everywhere I can think, but clutching at straws means im posting here.
Car is a Bora v6 4motion.

I'm wondering if anywhere in the world you can buy software to tune the factory ECU. This functionality is available for other cars (e.g. Flashtune/LS1edit/Nistune etc).
I dont want a generic chip or flash tune, I want something that my tuner can run on the dyno and play with rev limits, fuel + ignition, VVT mapping etc.

I know such software exists as tuners overseas can do custom tunes, but no-one I know if in Australia, let alone Perth.

Cost isnt really a huge concern, as the alternative is a standalone which is likely to cost me in the region of $5k, and may not play nicely with the rest of the cars systems.

Anyone know of any options?

I know what you need but its going to cost you several times the cost of your standalone and then theres the hardware to talk to the ECU oh and learning how to use it. Its very different to most other ECU's logic. These are strictly commercial packages so you are a bit out of luck We have it here ourselves though as does one place in SA. If you were in Sydney it wouldn't be a problem of course. Google Frieling racing, winols and Dimensione sport.
What year is the car ?

Cheers

Mark

[Lonewolf1983]

2002, so ODBII I believe.
And yeah, I realise what im asking and that its likely that its only worthwhile purchasing for a workshop looking to tune a lot of cars to recoup the costs.

Rather annoying considering that Honda/Nissan/subaru/mitsubishi are all tunable (with the right software), and its not that expensive.
Standalone is looking the best option, then piggybacking it onto the std ECU, leaving it to contol the dash/haldex etc.

[parso_rex]

It all depends on what your planning on doing too, standalones are pretty good in that they let you tune the car in real time which in a weird way can save you quite a lot time=$$, you can also sell it at a later date too. The gains won't be huge in an NA setup. Rev limit will be interesting
I just had a look at the BoraV6 Bosch ME7.1 stuff and there are no VVT tables to be modified. Everything else is there however

[Lonewolf1983]

a lot of the money involved is with getting it wired in and tuned, and yeah I guess you can always pull it back out if need be.
Dont expect big gains n/a (maybe a little if I went for a set of cams), interesting that you cant tune the VVT tables, I think there would be some gains there especially with a set of aftermarket cams.

I'd only be going down this path as an interim step prior to going forced induction. Get the ECU sorted before throwing in the extra complications.

[parso_rex]

Yeah there would be the gains with cams no question. Definitely go aftermarket if your going down the FI path you'll need it for boost control and the extra outputs and inputs always come in handy and you can choose injector impedance so theres more choice + its easily tuned.
Sounds like fun anyway

[Lonewolf1983]

submitted a query to my local Vipec dealer to see what my options are with regards to standalone.
Its pretty much the only decent ECU that can control VVT/variable intake/ DBW throttle etc.
Not going to be cheap, or get huge gains straight up (some would be nice!), but I see it as a building block to going forced induction...

[Lonewolf1983]

Got word back from local vipec rep, and its gonna be about $5-6k installed and tuned.
confirmed that haldex will function, with the ecu controlling the following

fuel/ignition/rev limit
both vvt cams
variable intake
DBW throttle
maybe turf the MAF

not 100% if im going to go ahead with it, but pretty keen at this stage...

[WhO]

Sounds interesting, i'm guessing you'll loose trac control, ebd and esp though? Potential risk of voiding insurance?

[Lonewolf1983]

traction control may go, but be replaced by the Vipecs 4 wheel system.
EBD shouldnt be affected

[WhO]

Ahh **** i meant EDL! too many acronyms lol! Is the ABS / ESP system a seperate computer or is it all through the me7.1? Let me know what you find, loosing esp would be my biggest concern otherwise it sounds like a pretty good option!

[Lonewolf1983]

Doesnt have EDL (electronic diff lock?)
ABS is completely seperate, ESP is likely tied into the ECU somewhere, not sure if it will stay, depends how it activates.

Normal traction control just closes the throttle, so that wouldnt work, but if may brake individual wheels which should remain active.
And then have the Vipec run its own independant traction control via fuel/ignition cut.

[parso_rex]

It looks like we will be doing a couple of modifed Audi's soon. I'm going to push for an Autronic SM4 ECU used in conjunction with the Factory ECU as these are DBC and pre 2001 so it should be fairly painless plus we can go nuts with water-meth, boost control options and other I/O. Oh and my favourite - real time tuning. Its only planning stage atm but I'll let you know what issues arise as it might have some relevance to your beast

Mark

[WhO]

Hey blake, i might have found another option for us to tune with using the stock ECU.

Eurodyne a canadian tuning company offer an end user software tuning package callsed "Maestro 7" which apparently gives us the capability to completely remap the ecu's in our cars. From what i've read on some websites re-selling it, it should now be capable of remapping the m7.1 and i'm just waiting to hear back from Eurodyne regarding compatability.

Eurodyne i believe also offer vr6 turbo maps as kineticmotorsport state they use a eurodyne tune with their turbo conversion package. Once i've confirmed/disproved that Eurodyne's software will tune the m7.1 i'll see if i cant get some more info from them to see if their vr6 turbo maps will suit ADM vehicles. From when i was speaking with C2 a few years back (when i was originally going to go turbo before i bought the GTR) i believe one of the sticking points was that here we used the more advanced 2 bank 02 control (ie 2 02 sensors in each bank of 3 cylinders) which the 2.8L 24v vr6's in the states didn't use. Jeff did however tell me that if i were to send him my ecu he should be able to work it out. Now that a bit more times passed hopefully they'd have figured it out a bit more! Moreso hopefully Eurodyne have suitable base maps so that we can just re-flash with a turbo map then using the Maestro 7 sofware fine-tune to suit local conditions.

Like you i've also been looking at getting another ECU but have also found a problem there to because of the immobiliser 3 that our cars have. Essentially to make the ecu work in the car you need the SKC code of both your current ecu which shouldn't be too hard to get because apparently you can use vag tacho to pull it but you also need the SKC code of the new (used) ecu your putting in. Problem is to get the SKC of the used ecu you need to have it either in the old car or matched with the old cars cluster so you can vag-tacho it and get it out. I'm waiting for a reply on vwvortex regarding defeating this but possibly the only way might be to disable the immobiliser by editing the code in the eeprom that controls the immobiliser, not too hard just another pain in the ass.

Tuning VW's hey... what a head****, at least with the the pulsars we had the option of piggyback ecu's or simple remapping, ahhh welll!

[parso_rex]

Theres a place in Sydney that looks like they'll be trying the Maestro Option soon because supposedly they already have a few big turbo files available which can save you an awful lot of time compared to starting from scratch. I'll be following it closely to see how well it compares with my stuff but it looks good for the cars up to the ye olde' ME7.1 or so . The thing I find being a possible issue is pretty much what you've mentioned above i.e our ECU's and their specific map locations and checksums and so on and then the physical hardware differences.
The immobiliser issue is another thing although if the cars are stock its not too hard with Vag tacho and VCDS. If they've already had APR/Revo/Unitronic on there then their 'tune protection' also overwrites the eeprom as well and then your in for a world of hurt. Delete the modifed map and replace it with a stock or tuned file and you car won't start LOL unless you can find the stock eeprom files for that ECU Hw/SW combo or your prepared to lose the immobiliser - poor form IMO.
Yes Fun Euro quirks FTL