APR ECU Upgrade MK6 Golf - Customer perspective

[Guy_H]

There is no real change in the performance calibration of the updated VW file, the "safety" stuff that has been modified by VW should not effect performance - if it did, it would effect the standard performance (not reported by anyone that I know of).

Imagine Volkswagen sending a letter & new badges out to customers:

Sorry, your car is no longer a 118tsi, its now a 112tsi .......................

[Ryan_R]

The only problem of making the car faster is that you spend less time enjoying spirited acceleration. I guess that's one of life's Catch 22 situations for you. I've adopted a slightly different foot position to avoid the pause when accelerating, but I feel that it takes a tad longer to switch back to the brake pedal if needed, so I don't use it in peak hour. I reckon a new pair of shoes might help too, my current work ones a pain to drive in.

[cameronp]

Dunno. A bit perhaps. The glaring difference previously was its ability to hold gears much longer as torque requirement increased.
This was a difference that was clearly demonstrable, whereas all the seat of the pants stuff is subjective. Cant see that difference any more.
Now you have got me thinking.. Wonder if it is possible for APR to have somehow mucked up the ECU tune so I have stock in both positions?
I think I had better give them a tingle tomorrow.

Didn't you post acceleration measurements with the APR tune enabled/disabled before and after the service campaign? Regardless, I would've thought you could very easily test low-RPM torque with the tune vs stock, using your VAG-COM to measure acceleration.

I keep coming very close to calling up the local APR dealer because while I'm quite satisfied with the 118TSI's performance, I miss the shove to the back of your seat that you get in e.g. a diesel Golf or my old XR5 Focus. I'm not really sure whether it would help though - hard to say whether the TSI feels subjectively slow because of its lack of low-end torque, because the DSG box is so much smoother than the manuals I'm used to, or just because it's so quiet.

[Ryan_R]

No worries, I'm still thinking of getting Stage 1 applied next year after my first service and of course want to know if it's still worth it by the time I get around to it. Keep us posted.

[logger]

Good Points Ryan.

If you take the car back to the ACR place and get them to redo the ECU, do you think you'll get your power back?

Done that already. From what I understand, a VW ECU reflash such as SC24S4 overwrites and effectively removes the stage 1 tune. So you have to take it back to APR and get their tune reloaded afterwards. I did that straight away.

I know it is far more complex than this with curves and so on. But in a a simplistic sense, if a tune hypothetically increases power and torque by say 10% from standard, then because the standard MAY have been reduced by SC24S4, could not the net effect be reduction in the maximum torque available? ie is it an absolute or relative effect.

Just curious: Although you say it's down on power, is it still more powerful than stock?

Dunno. A bit perhaps. The glaring difference previously was its ability to hold gears much longer as torque requirement increased.
This was a difference that was clearly demonstrable, whereas all the seat of the pants stuff is subjective. Cant see that difference any more.
Now you have got me thinking.. Wonder if it is possible for APR to have somehow mucked up the ECU tune so I have stock in both positions?
I think I had better give them a tingle tomorrow.

[Ryan_R]

If you take the car back to the ACR place and get them to redo the ECU, do you think you'll get your power back? Just curious: Although you say it's down on power, is it still more powerful than stock?

[logger]

Thanks Beaker. Dunno what that go to do with the topic of this thread though.

Now APR ECU Upgrade MK6 Golf - Customer perspective

Has anyone else thought their MK6 with APR ECU Upgrade is down on power since the 24S4 Service Campaign? From my perspective, I reckon the available power has been reduced.

[Beaker]

Most rally cars have the straightest, most free flowing exhaust possible, often bolted directly through the floor - they do have to meet noise criteria to be able to compete, but interior comfort and 'note' is not a consideration - inside a rally car (any race car really) is noisy and hot and bloody uncomfortable - not really comparable with what you want in a road car.

Having said that - header design is/was critical to alow for scavenging of the cylinders and good flow, turbo cars have a huge restriction not far past the exhaust ports anyway and from what I've seen around service areas the exhaust post turbo isn't as critical (still needs to flow well obviously). From a performance point of view most good exhaust places should be able to knock up a decent pipe - what it will sound like - well thats another story.

[logger]

Yeah, it could be. Undoubtedly there are numerous possibilities. Car was serviced by VW a couple of weeks back, oil was changed. Only ever use Premium unleaded.
But starting with the obvious change that has been made to a heap of cars. The ECU program has been modified by a service campaign.
Is would seem possible that part of the strategy to protect the engine from "issues" was to limit the load it can be subjected to.

So has anyone else noticed a difference like I have?
How can tuners know that what ever was changed by SC24S4 will not effect the output of the engine unless they have compared its output before and after?

[noone]

It could be related to something else, fuel, oil change, clogged filter... I'm not saying that's the reason, but there are many components involved.

My generic dump pipe added a few kw and gave a little gurgle.

[logger]

Wandering back to the orginal topic

APR ECU Upgrade MK6 Golf - Customer perspective

I reckon my car is down on power since the 24S4 Service Campaign and having the APR stage I tune reloaded.

There is a long hill on a highway that I regularly drive up. The cars has been up it perhaps 50 times. Previously I used to marvel at how my tsi118 + stage1 would pull up it at 100kph holding D7 all the way. If I drove the same hill in stock tune with the Stage I inactive it would always drop back to D6. Now since SC24S4 it always drop back to D6 even with the APR stage1 tune active

Around the corner there is a gently sloped hill that I used to test the DSG7s behaviour when I was investigating how it worked. Again, stage1 used to crawl up this hill in D2 with foot off accelerator at idle. In Stock mode is used to drop back to D1. Now it always drops back to D1 with stage1 active

Chicken and Egg argument I know. But you could say that SC24S4 has just altered the DSG7s change points, while the same power and torque is available. On the other hand I was lead to believe the change points are somewhat dictated by the available torque from the engine.

..or I could have just put on a load of weight I suppose.

Interested to know if anyone else has the same feeling?
Wonder if any of the tuners have checked their claimed figures are still achievable after SC24S4?

[Maverick]

Cant say I agree. You MAY get these results, but if you go to the right place, you should get a great result and save a few bucks.

The exhausts from Milltek / APR / etc are all designed by good exhaust specialists. Why not go to one of these places and see what they can do for you without the brand-name markup?

Leaving the RSC technology out of the equation for the moment but please explain how many iterations of exhausts companies like Milltek/APR and so on go through to get the sound right and/or maximise performance? 20 exhaust designs? 50? Take into account the numerous different mufflers, different materials available as well and you have a lot of iterations to go through to get the right sound. Each exhaust would have to be tested extensively as some will start droning after a few hundred km's and testing will need to be performed under many different conditions to make sure the exhaust is right.

Now even taking into account the RSC technology you would be looking at least ten iterations to get it right (weight, sound, flow etc).

I have had Carline at gladesville recomended to me a number of times. From memory, my last mechanic who used to do rally support said they had done a number of exhuasts for brand name companies and did many of the rally cars in Sydney. Not cheap for a fabriacted unit, but far from Brand name pricing.

An exhaust for a rally car doesn't have to worry about how much noise it makes, an exhaust for a road car is a completely different kettle of fish and noise plays a big factor in how successful it is. No offence but try and make your own exhaust and see how (un) successful you will be, the smallest of changes can change an exhaust sound and performance in a major way. The price you pay for a name brand exhaust like APR/Milltek etc is pretty reasonable considering the costs that go into developing it.

[Corey_R]

The exhausts from Milltek / APR / etc are all designed by good exhaust specialists. Why not go to one of these places and see what they can do for you without the brand-name markup?

I'm not sure NASA have a space-agency in Australia that would be willing to build you your APR exhaust

[ravun]

Any idea how much the Sport-Wheels.de exhaust would cost to land in Australia?

It sounds pretty decent, but there are not many other up yet on youtube to compare it to. Still early days yet though.

YouTube - VW Golf 6 R 2.0 Turbo 325PS/450NM www.Sport-Wheels.de

[noone]

With a custom or slapped together job you will end up with drone and heaps of other undesirable noises and without really deep pockets you won't be able to resolve these. Of course if you think a drone and heaps of noise are acceptable this may be the path to go down.

Cant say I agree. You MAY get these results, but if you go to the right place, you should get a great result and save a few bucks.

The exhausts from Milltek / APR / etc are all designed by good exhaust specialists. Why not go to one of these places and see what they can do for you without the brand-name markup?

I have had Carline at gladesville recomended to me a number of times. From memory, my last mechanic who used to do rally support said they had done a number of exhuasts for brand name companies and did many of the rally cars in Sydney. Not cheap for a fabriacted unit, but far from Brand name pricing.