APR ECU Upgrade MK6 Golf - Customer perspective

[logger]

Glad yours is working thezone32. I would like someone with and APR tune on a 118TSI post SC24S4 to check theirs. See if they still have a clearly discernible difference between 98 and Stock.

[thezoneR32]

Well I checked my apr tune and the 98 is quite strong in the mid range, really responsive and I've had mine about 9 months. At 60-65km/h in 4th the pedal is so touchy, its quite a noticeable push in the seat. Love it. Pretty good for an na.

[logger]

Here's a thought. Is it possible that the fuel is not up to its claimed ron level? Pretty hard to test without the proper gear i guess. I wouldn't put it passed the dodgy fuel companies.

Possible but unlikely. Because it has not just occurred since the last fill up. Would have to have been the last 6 or 7 tank fulls sourced from different servos that were all not up to spec. ie I have noticed it for the past 3 or 4,000kms. It is only now that I have got around to doing something about it.

[thezoneR32]

Here's a thought. Is it possible that the fuel is not up to its claimed ron level? Pretty hard to test without the proper gear i guess. I wouldn't put it passed the dodgy fuel companies.

[logger]

I've never driven the the 118TSI with APR Stage 1, but in the stage 1 cars I have driven, you don't need logs to tell you which program you've got selected, it's THAT different.

I agree, hence my initial observations about gear change points. But at least the logs are a pretty clear way to show it when is not working and that something needs fixing. Instead of me just saying it doesn't feel right. Will chase it up.

[Corey_R]

I've never driven the the 118TSI with APR Stage 1, but in the stage 1 cars I have driven, you don't need logs to tell you which program you've got selected, it's THAT different.
I would guestimate that it's entirely possible to load the stock program twice, since you can load these things up with 4 or 5 (or more?) programs if you wanted to. I'm pretty sure that Guy_H can check to see what program versions and the order they were installed in if he knows your VIN.
But yeah - sounds as though something a little strange is going on...

[logger]

Nah tried that. Only has 4 x 1 and 4 x 2 flashes in there before it times out. So two positions only. I was thinking stock could somehow get in there twice. Wonder if anyone else has done any careful observation of the APR Stage one post SC24S4? APR for example? I know the likely cause is more likely to be specific to my installation. But you never know.
In the mean time I will have to resort to a leisurely Sunday afternoon drive.

[Corey_R]

Hey logger, I was wondering if you're held down the "switch program button" and let it cycle through the single flash, double flash, triple flash,etc, to see how many programs are there. Maybe after you had the dealer service campaign done, and then the ECU reflashed, the programs were put on in a different order or with an additional program in there or something?

[logger]

Adding to my suspicion the tune no longer works on my car. I revisited my earlier post #32 comparing top speeds from last year. Wanted to see what Loads my car is currently pulling at WOT with the tune supposedly active. Progam 2 (stage1 active), TBA carried out and about 100km driven since switching for car to adapt.
Did a single run down the test track from Zero to ~190kph with WOT all the way. Results mirrored stock

This first point is the same speed,gear & rpm as first graph in #32
______[........LAST YEAR......][...Today..]
TUNE......Stock_____Stage 1____Stage 1
Speed.....141________141______141 kph
RPM........6000______6000______6000
Load.......147.4%____169.9%____151.1%
Throttle....Full_______Full_______Full

Notice the Engine load in the first grab is only 3.7 % higher than stock was and is a full 19% lower than Stage 1 used to be when it worked.

16 seconds later, same time point graph 2 in #32
______[........LAST YEAR......][...Today..]
TUNE......Stock_____Stage 1____Stage 1
Speed.....183________192______183 kph
RPM........5930______6200______5920
Load.......148.9%____160.2%____149.6%
Throttle....Full_______Full_______Full


In the second grab the supposed Stage 1 as tested today, shows:
The car has only accelerated to to the exact same speed and rpm as it did previously in stock tune during this time period. this ties in with the shortfall in engine load. It shows the rpm, speed and engine load are all near as identical to stock. Whereas when it worked, I used to have another 320rpm, kph and 10% more engine load at this point.

So what started off as my observation the car is down on torque and not holding the tall gears going up a particular hill with tune selected is borne out by the hard figures.

Now I just have to work out why it has been behaving like stock in the past few months; Effect of Service campaign? Remap not installed properly? Remap no long effective? Buggered engine?

I have not been routinely switching tunes either. It has been in Stage 1 (program 2, 98Ron) exclusively since May when SC24S4 was done. It was not long after this point that I started to notice it seemed down on torque. Only put it back to stock for 2 days when had the 15K service done in early August. Then straight back into Stage 1 and left there, until the last couple of days since I have gone looking.

[mr gee]

I did some 0-100kph testing with VagCom today. Seems to confirm that my APR ECU tune has lost its mojo
14 runs back and forth on same track and no marked difference between stock and APR. Performs like a stock 118tsi in both programs.

Program 2
APR STAGE 1 ACTIVE - So the car should be faster that stock right? Always has been in the past when I tested it. It has been in Stage 1 and driven for about 250km since ECU programs were last switched.

8.2
8.3
8.2
8.5
8.3 These times are what you might expect from a stock standard car with no tune. Not what you should see with the tune active

Program 1
STOCK program active and and TBA performed. (Although not driven more than about 3 km since previous runs so fuel trims may not have adapted. So I am happy for you to discount these runs.

8.3
8.2
8.2
7.9

Still in Stock tune, but now 6 hours later, after driving 80km with stock tune active to ensure it has adapted fuel trims. Car allowed to sit for about 4 hours in middle of the 80km drive. Restarted and returned to same test track.

7.9
8.0
8.1
7.9
7.9

So these times in stock mode were faster than achieved earlier with the Stage 1 tune active!!! Granted it was 6 hours later and some environmental factor may have changed. But the point is, these should have been slower not faster.

You will recall from earlier in this thread - I had in the past achieved 6.9 sec with the APR Stage 1 and routuinely done it in the low 7s. The improvement used to be just under 1 sec. But more importantly there was a difference. Now I see no difference

Is it possible that stock tune is getting selected by both programs? Sure seems that way.


Yeah we could do that, but you would flog the pants off me

Not meaning to race Ted but just to see if my tune mixed that torque limit thingy

[Ryan_R]

Oh, that's a bummer. Hopefully ACR respond soon and you get a free upgrade, otherwise I'd be a bit annoyed after spending that much money. I'm still jealous of your seemingly easy access to a track (or is it a public drag strip venue)

[logger]

If the switching is there, then the program is loaded 100% - the performance calibration has not changed a single bit between revisions. Don't forget if you are going to be data logging on the road, after switching you should allow a good period of time to allow the adaptation to catch up. do a TBA to clear your fuel trims as well!

I did some 0-100kph testing with VagCom today. Seems to confirm that my APR ECU tune has lost its mojo
14 runs back and forth on same track and no marked difference between stock and APR. Performs like a stock 118tsi in both programs.

Program 2
APR STAGE 1 ACTIVE - So the car should be faster that stock right? Always has been in the past when I tested it. It has been in Stage 1 and driven for about 250km since ECU programs were last switched.

8.2
8.3
8.2
8.5
8.3 These times are what you might expect from a stock standard car with no tune. Not what you should see with the tune active

Program 1
STOCK program active and and TBA performed. (Although not driven more than about 3 km since previous runs so fuel trims may not have adapted. So I am happy for you to discount these runs.

8.3
8.2
8.2
7.9

Still in Stock tune, but now 6 hours later, after driving 80km with stock tune active to ensure it has adapted fuel trims. Car allowed to sit for about 4 hours in middle of the 80km drive. Restarted and returned to same test track.

7.9
8.0
8.1
7.9
7.9

So these times in stock mode were faster than achieved earlier with the Stage 1 tune active!!! Granted it was 6 hours later and some environmental factor may have changed. But the point is, these should have been slower not faster.

You will recall from earlier in this thread - I had in the past achieved 6.9 sec with the APR Stage 1 and routuinely done it in the low 7s. The improvement used to be just under 1 sec. But more importantly there was a difference. Now I see no difference

Is it possible that stock tune is getting selected by both programs? Sure seems that way.

I recall Superchips telling me that SC24S4 did limit the max torque...... maybe we should meet up to compare tunes.

Yeah we could do that, but you would flog the pants off me

[mr gee]

I recall Superchips telling me that SC24S4 did limit the max torque. Took them a couple of months to send me a new program.

ted, maybe we should meet up to compare tunes.

[Guy_H]

The acceleration measurements I did were way back before I got the service campaign. But good idea. Am in in position to test and compare it again in the next few days.



That being the case, could it be my stage 1 tune was not reloaded correctly after the service campaign. Switching all seems to work though.
Should I expect to be seeing the same max manifold pressure in both modes? Because a quick test shows it currently peaks at 2360mb in both stage1 and stock.

If the switching is there, then the program is loaded 100% - the performance calibration has not changed a single bit between revisions. Don't forget if you are going to be data logging on the road, after switching you should allow a good period of time to allow the adaptation to catch up. do a TBA to clear your fuel trims as well!

[logger]

Didn't you post acceleration measurements with the APR tune enabled/disabled before and after the service campaign? Regardless, I would've thought you could very easily test low-RPM torque with the tune vs stock, using your VAG-COM to measure acceleration.

The acceleration measurements I did were way back before I got the service campaign. But good idea. Am in in position to test and compare it again in the next few days.

There is no real change in the performance calibration of the updated VW file, the "safety" stuff that has been modified by VW should not effect performance - if it did, it would effect the standard performance (not reported by anyone that I know of).

That being the case, could it be my stage 1 tune was not reloaded correctly after the service campaign. Switching all seems to work though.
Should I expect to be seeing the same max manifold pressure in both modes? Because a quick test shows it currently peaks at 2360mb in both stage1 and stock.