Looking for power upgrade advice on stock '91 RV 1.8 GTI

[pommydubber]

Hi,
I've recently acquired a mk2 1.8 RV 8V engined GTI golf. I am looking to raise the compression ratio with a wiseco piston set, and install a fast road high lift cam to the head, which is going to go off to the machine shop for porting, polishing, bigger valves and all new parts (springs, bucket tappets, valve stem seals etc).
Once all this has been installed, i will have a 2.5" non-cat exhaust system installed. Also a decent K&N cone filter in place of the factory one....

My questions are:
What kind of power will the car make roughly from all this?
Do i need to add any other componentry standalone ecu, Bigger injectors? for example..
What is a sensible compression ratio when using a copper head gasket and ARP head bolts to maintain reliability?
Do you recommend a particular cam manufacturer and/or profile?
What valves both inlet and exhaust should i use to go bigger than stock?
Any help will be greatly appreciated....

[velly_16v_cab]

exhaust manifold is a must to change!!! they are tiny!
i am changing mine to a 2.0 bottom end., not sure what exhaust i am going to run yet.

its never going to make massive power. if you want power fit a 16v engine

a std RV is 100bhp, if i can get mine to 120bhp i will be happy.
there is a few mk2 builds in the mk2 section, look up spyda's thread. he has done a fair bit to his mk2

[gldgti]

Hi,
I've recently acquired a mk2 1.8 RV 8V engined GTI golf. I am looking to raise the compression ratio with a wiseco piston set, and install a fast road high lift cam to the head, which is going to go off to the machine shop for porting, polishing, bigger valves and all new parts (springs, bucket tappets, valve stem seals etc).
Once all this has been installed, i will have a 2.5" non-cat exhaust system installed. Also a decent K&N cone filter in place of the factory one....

My questions are:
What kind of power will the car make roughly from all this?
Do i need to add any other componentry standalone ecu, Bigger injectors? for example..
What is a sensible compression ratio when using a copper head gasket and ARP head bolts to maintain reliability?
Do you recommend a particular cam manufacturer and/or profile?
What valves both inlet and exhaust should i use to go bigger than stock?
Any help will be greatly appreciated....

all you have said will make a big difference. like velly said, its a must to ditch the crud std exhaust manifold. get some hottuning ebay headers for bang for buck, or there are other manifolds from other 8V vag cars that will work too, like mk3's, seat cordoba's, etc.

i would think you'll turn better than 120hp no problem (especially considering the higher compression and decent cam).

[Preen59]

It'd be cheaper to throw in a 16v. They have more torque from idle than any of the GTI 8v's AND 139bhp standard.

[pommydubber]

exhaust manifold is a must to change!!! they are tiny!
i am changing mine to a 2.0 bottom end., not sure what exhaust i am going to run yet.

its never going to make massive power. if you want power fit a 16v engine

a std RV is 100bhp, if i can get mine to 120bhp i will be happy.
there is a few mk2 builds in the mk2 section, look up spyda's thread. he has done a fair bit to his mk2

Thanks for the manifold advice Velly, Preen 59 & GLD GTI. If i did ditch the 8V unit in favour of a 16v what would i have to worry about in regards to plumming it in? like ECU, senders, etc....Plus where do i get a 16v unit here in Australia, especially WA!

[twin eng, twin turbs]

Whats your budget?
How much power are you after?

You can get decent power from the standard 8v engine but depending on your budget you have so many more options. 1.8l 16v, 2.0l 16v, 1.8l 20v turbo, 2.8l vr6...

For the standard engine wiseco forged pistons are available off the shelf in 9.0:1, 10.5:1 and 13.4:1 compression ratio in 20, 40, 60 80 thou oversize from importperformanceparts.net Yours is 9.0:1 standard. 10.5:1 is good for the street.

Supertech make great valves with wasted stems for improved flow in 1mm and 2mm oversize for inlet and exhaust. Standard valve sizes are 38mm inlet and 33mm exhaust on your head. They also make titanium retainers and heavy duty valve springs. INA make light weight hydraulic lifters aswell.

I wouldn't worry about a copper head gasket with an NA engine the factory multi layer steel gaskets are a great option compared to the original. ARP head, rod and main studs are a safe option...

Their are heaps of cam options and many different opinions on what is best. Techtonics Tuning, Schrick, Cat Cams, Piper etc the list goes on.. I have a Schrick 272 in my 1.9l 8v turbo and rate it highly.

Golf Loon on here has a heap of engines to choose from if your keen for real power gains! A 1.8l 20v turbo conversion will easlily net 3oohp with a few easy mods, tuning and it will make many a HSV upset. but it will cost sum

[jayjay]

if you're looking for plug and play, a seat ibiza cupra will have plenty of power. they're a 2.0 16v motor originally with 150hp. that would yield you easy power with stock management and a nice exhaust.

getting big power out of a counterflow 8v is difficult. If it's a daily, you probably wouldn't want a cam with too much duration.

i personally went with a techtonics tuning cam and am running high compression pistons in a counterflow 2.0 8v. but i dont really expect it to produce any sort of big power like you would with a more modern or FI engine.

as mentioned before, budget plays a big role. i remember driving a 2.0 8v that just had a nice fresh head and i was just grinning all day. but having been in a couple of 20v frankensteins, there's a very big disparity between power/performance and cost.

[pommydubber]

Whats your budget?
How much power are you after?

You can get decent power from the standard 8v engine but depending on your budget you have so many more options. 1.8l 16v, 2.0l 16v, 1.8l 20v turbo, 2.8l vr6...

For the standard engine wiseco forged pistons are available off the shelf in 9.0:1, 10.5:1 and 13.4:1 compression ratio in 20, 40, 60 80 thou oversize from importperformanceparts.net Yours is 9.0:1 standard. 10.5:1 is good for the street.

Supertech make great valves with wasted stems for improved flow in 1mm and 2mm oversize for inlet and exhaust. Standard valve sizes are 38mm inlet and 33mm exhaust on your head. They also make titanium retainers and heavy duty valve springs. INA make light weight hydraulic lifters aswell.

I wouldn't worry about a copper head gasket with an NA engine the factory multi layer steel gaskets are a great option compared to the original. ARP head, rod and main studs are a safe option...

Their are heaps of cam options and many different opinions on what is best. Techtonics Tuning, Schrick, Cat Cams, Piper etc the list goes on.. I have a Schrick 272 in my 1.9l 8v turbo and rate it highly.

Golf Loon on here has a heap of engines to choose from if your keen for real power gains! A 1.8l 20v turbo conversion will easlily net 3oohp with a few easy mods, tuning and it will make many a HSV upset. but it will cost sum

Hi TwinTurbs,
Thanks for asking the tough questions! My budget over the next 6 months for the engine and any additions to make it run properly is $5000 AU (Assuming the missus doesn't kill me first!).
I would like to get as much power as possible for this 5K. But i recognise that big power kills 8V and 16V transmissions and clutches, plus stopping power needs to be upgraded. I can add several thousand to my 5K for this i presume! So i guess my next question is what power can an 8V or 16V transmission take reliably?

As you mentioned the 20v Turbo route. This option is attractive but certain unknowns have been putting me off like:
What transmission bolts onto the 20v T block in a MK2?
What mods if any are necessary to hook up Transmission and engine in a MK2?
Do i Ditch the 8V digifant ECU in favour of a standalone aftermarket ECU to run the thing?
And lastly does 5K get anywhere near a 20VT conversion?
Anything else i should know on this conversion?

At present after talking on this forum to other members (leaving the 20vT out of the equation for the moment) the 16v 1.8 or 2.0 engine seems to be the way forward. I Can source one in running order for less than $1K and have $4k to spend on it and possibly an upgraded clutch. Am i right in assuming the 16v 1.8 PL motor will bolt onto my 020 8v gearbox?
Assuming i go this route, i have priced all the following so far:

16v PL 1.8 motor minus ancilliaries = $650 AU

IP - High Compression Pistons (10.5:1), Rings, Bearings, Gaskets = $879A + Shipping

IP - Stage 3 SPEC 16v Clutch (SV273) = $332A + Shipping

IP - K1 Con-Rods Golf 1.8L H-section VW5669BBCB4-A = $389A + Shipping

Local - Cylinder head Port, Polish, Cut Seats for oversize Valves, Skim Head if needed. = $1000AU

IP - Supertech Valves +1mm Oversize = 16* $17 = $272A + Shipping

IP - Performance Valve Springs = $162A + Shipping

Autotech Performance Cams = 349.95A +Shipping

Local - Custom Exhaust System including Manifold = $600A

IP - ARP Head Bolts = $120A + Shipping


$4753.95 not including shipping & unforseen Extras

[twin eng, twin turbs]

I aggree with Jay Jay, the 2.0 16v from a seat cupra with the 02a gearbox is the way to go on your budget. Keeping the factory engine management but doing all the mods you want to may go just over budget but be well worth it!

I have personally smashed seven 020 8v and 16v gearboxes with my mk2 turbo and upgraded to an 02a gearbox from a seat cupra 2.0 16v. Which is the same internally as a vr6 except the bellhousing is different. If your going to drive your car hard you may smash your 020 8v box. The PL 16v will bolt up to 020 8v and 16v gearboxes but you need to have the 8v or 16v clutch to go with them as they are different sizes on the spline.

20v wise, your 5k wont cut it unless you dont rebuild it.. I would ditch the digifant ecu and go stand alone management for sure, the power gain would be well worth it. A deisel 020 gearbox is different to the petrol 8v and 16v box and can handle more power, torque and bolt up to the 20v. The 02a box will fit in the mk2 no worries but your have to change to cable shift mechanism.

[Golf Loon]

I`d go 020 TDI box with a 20V or 16v in a Mk2 and the 02A boxes are very heavy and unnecessary in all but the most extreme applications - like Martys

[Spyda]

ummmm vr6 anyone?

170bhp out of the box, prity straight forward swap and if you get stuck there are plenty of wright ups. It wont cost more than 5k. People will tell you its too heavy but its only ~50kg difference. A bit of work and youre near 200hp and alot more torques than a 4banger. The 16v with all that work should be about 200hp, true? but it wont be down low.

[jayjay]

hey pommydubber,

pretty much everything that everyone has stated here in the past few replies are all viable options.

if you wanna go fast in a mk2, they're all very sensibly priced and are quite linear in terms of cost to power. ( ie 2.0 8v = little money/power, 20v turbo = big money/power )

the 16v motor you stated, ( PL code ) wont have the compatible ( read: plug and play ) engine loom for your 91 aussie spec(?) car. that motor runs on k-jet and hence has a different pulley set up, no electronic fuel injection! hahaha. the 16v motor that you'd want is an ABF out of a seat mk3 ibiza cupra.

vr6 mk2s are a lot of fun, 20v mk2s are insane, and as everyone has said, 020 diesel gearboxes are win.

[pommydubber]

I`d go 020 TDI box with a 20V or 16v in a Mk2 and the 02A boxes are very heavy and unnecessary in all but the most extreme applications - like Martys

Ok Golf loon,
I have been through all the options and it seems to me like an 8v or 16v 2.0l lump from a SEAT or MK3 Golf plus an 020 TDI gearbox (As you recommend) is the way to go with my conversion. Would you agree with this? I want minimal installation problems. Am i right in thinking the TDI 020 Gearbox will bolt onto the original MK2 GTI 8v drive shafts and mate up to the shift linkages. What about the clutch on a TDI 020 Gearbox? is it Hydraulic? if so how do i attach it to my Mk2 Golf?

[jayjay]

the mk2 020 gearbox is rod shift like all the others. it should mate perfectly to your current shifter box, assuming that you haven't changed from the original.

the clutch used in the diesel gearboxes is it's the smaller spline input shaft (24 teeth), not the large spline clutch (28 teeth) found in late model mk3 2.0 8 valves and 16v mk2s.

[Golf Loon]

I reckon I`d use your original 8v gearbox with the Cupra engine and a new clutch and the car would be a screamer.

I have a complete 16v ABF engine with all wiring loom and manifolds ready to bolt into your car. Pm me for details and pricing if you want.