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Advice on racing tires and wheels

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  • Advice on racing tires and wheels

    Hi there...I'm a newbie to motor racing and so far I've been to the VW progressive course at Phillip island and I've also been on MSAV event at Sandown. After my Sandown stint...my front tyres (continentals) are worn out and need replacing. My car has done 16000 Kms....so I reckon that the track day didn't help much. On the track, I did 3 sessions and each session was about 15-20 mins I think.
    I'm keen to go to the sandown event on 30th November but this time am reluctant to use the contis....don't want to have to change them again.
    I thought that since I'll be doing track 2-3 times a year, I should get a set of race tires on a set of second hand wheels for those. I've looked around and Hankooks Ventus TD Z221 seem to be popular but a little bit pricey. I would lean towards the medium compound...purely because I'm still new to this and I think I'll cook the soft very quickly....also sandown in November will be quite hot for soft tires.

  • #2
    Is there a question here?

    All I can say is do it.
    Just find a secondhand set of rims for your car. If smaller rims will clear your brakes, you may well find a wider and cheaper selection of semi-slicks are available.

    The Z221 is not at all expensive for the performance it provides - just try pricing a comparable semi-slick from Yokohama / Dunlop / Bridgestone. If you want to go cheaper for your first set, St Georges Tyres and others on eBay often have Toyo R888 and Nitto NT01 semi-slicks at good prices
    Resident grumpy old fart
    VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

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    • #3
      you may want to try the hybrid tyres first before going to full R compound tyres, such as yokohama ad08r or hankook ventus z222 / rs3.

      you can use these on the street, drive to the track and drive back home. and they should last a bit longer than R tyres and they are easier to maintain as opposed to R compound tyres (heat cycle, storage, air pressure, etc...).

      as for wheels, pick the lightest possible from a reputable brand from Japan (enkei, rays, etc...) or Italy (oz racing) that is within your budget.

      and also if you don't have much negative camber (at least above -2 degrees), you will likely to torture the front tyres shoulder easily and they won't work at their optimum capability.
      Mitsubishi Pajero Sport - Super Select 2WD/4WD
      Toyota 86 GTS Performance Pack Moon Slate - RWD
      MINI Cooper S Clubman - FWD

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      • #4
        I wouldn't mess about with street tyres. Semi slicks are the most significant handling upgrade you can make.

        You're always going to chew the corners off street tyres at Sandown.

        You can drive to and from the track on semis. They won't get hot enough on the road to heat cycle them.

        They sometimes come up cheap second hand on eBay.
        79 MK1 Golf Wreck to Race / 79 MK1 Golf The Red Thread / 76 MK1 Golf Kamei Race Car
        7? MK1 Caddy
        79 B1 Passat Dasher Project
        12 Amarok

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nat225 View Post
          you may want to try the hybrid tyres first before going to full R compound tyres, such as yokohama ad08r or hankook ventus z222 / rs3.

          you can use these on the street, drive to the track and drive back home. and they should last a bit longer than R tyres and they are easier to maintain as opposed to R compound tyres (heat cycle, storage, air pressure, etc...).

          as for wheels, pick the lightest possible from a reputable brand from Japan (enkei, rays, etc...) or Italy (oz racing) that is within your budget.

          and also if you don't have much negative camber (at least above -2 degrees), you will likely to torture the front tyres shoulder easily and they won't work at their optimum capability.
          Why would you buy "hybrid" tyres and then buy expensive, lightweight wheels and modify the car for camber adjustment?

          The OP is just starting out and a set of secondhand OEM rims and semi-slicks will give the best fun for his(her) money.

          Arguably, "hybrid" tyres are slightly more versatile but they cost just as much as full semi-slicks and won't handle the front outside shoulder torture as well. They are a reasonable choice only if a second set of rims is out of the question or if you are running in a series that demands them.
          Resident grumpy old fart
          VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kaanage View Post
            Why would you buy "hybrid" tyres and then buy expensive, lightweight wheels and modify the car for camber adjustment?

            The OP is just starting out and a set of secondhand OEM rims and semi-slicks will give the best fun for his(her) money.

            Arguably, "hybrid" tyres are slightly more versatile but they cost just as much as full semi-slicks and won't handle the front outside shoulder torture as well. They are a reasonable choice only if a second set of rims is out of the question or if you are running in a series that demands them.
            my comment is more based on my holistic approach to modifying for track (better tyres need better brakes and better suspension upgrades, to minimise any weakness). R compound tyres need even better brakes otherwise they will get cooked quick.

            the OP only intends to do track days 2-3 times a year, so buying R compound tyres is kind of a luxury for "best bang for your buck" as after 2 tracks days (may be just after 1 if the driver is not smooth on track) the shoulders will likely look like this without decent suspension work:

            Front camber options?

            but it is each to their own

            one can have great fun on track with a $15k car and another may not be satisfied until he gets a $214k GT4 Cayman on the track
            Last edited by nat225; 07-10-2015, 10:42 PM.
            Mitsubishi Pajero Sport - Super Select 2WD/4WD
            Toyota 86 GTS Performance Pack Moon Slate - RWD
            MINI Cooper S Clubman - FWD

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            • #7
              The trap with the "holistic" approach is when is the car "good enough" to track? I know so many VW owners who say "I need to do x, y, z before I can track my car" and never do it.
              Reality is that all you need to do is bolt in a fire extinguisher and put on 3 stickers and then drive accordingly when the limits are approached. Everything else may be regarded as a bonus. The semi slicks will stop the OP needing 2 new tyres per track day - especially if he(she) swaps and flips them around enough to even out the wear (between track days - not during unless he/she is bored).

              I have camber plates giving > 2 degrees of negative camber on the fronts and the driver side front tyre outside shoulder still looked like the pic you linked after a track day at Sandown (same tyres too). If you drive the car hard enough, at certain tracks, you will knacker the outside shoulder unless you have so much negative camber on the fronts that it is unusable on road.
              Last edited by kaanage; 08-10-2015, 09:11 AM.
              Resident grumpy old fart
              VW - Metallic Paint, Radial Tyres, Laminated Windscreen, Electric Windows, VW Alloy Wheels, Variable Geometry Exhaust Driven Supercharger, Direct Unit Fuel Injection, Adiabatic Ignition, MacPherson Struts front, Torsion Beam rear, Coil Springs, Hydraulic Dampers, Front Anti-Roll Bar, Disc Brakes, Bosch ECU, ABS

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              • #8
                You don't need to upgrade anything to run semi slicks. They simply allow you to use whatever brakes and suspension you've got to their limit.

                You stop, turn and go better than road.tyres.

                They are just so much better than road tyres on the track, the difference is massive.
                79 MK1 Golf Wreck to Race / 79 MK1 Golf The Red Thread / 76 MK1 Golf Kamei Race Car
                7? MK1 Caddy
                79 B1 Passat Dasher Project
                12 Amarok

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                • #9
                  Advice on racing tires and wheels

                  If you can afford it definitely get yourself a spare set of rims with R compound tyres. I come across some cheap sets on Facebook all the time. Assuming you have a Mk6, there's a set of 4 Denvers with Dunlop Direzzas with a lot left in them for $250. He might even be throwing in the covers. That's money well spent IMO for 2-3 track days a year.

                  Last edited by grandturismo; 08-10-2015, 10:10 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Buy those
                    Freight on eGo will be reasonable (even better if they will drop at the depot)

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for all the advise....i'm keeping an eye for some rims and hankooks z221 c5.

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                      • #12
                        in my experience hankook rs3 and ad08R great tyres for track days without going full R compound, i used to track my STi from time to time and have used dunlop direzza and hankook rs3 and found the rs3 a great tyre, feedback from follow enthusiasts say ad08R great tyre

                        i picked up a set of rs3 in 245/35/18 for 200 a corner

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