Suggestions on improving my track driving

[Sirocco20348]

Hi everyone,

I have a Mk4 Golf GTI that I have mildly set-up for track work and I am wondering if anyone on here with some circuit racing experience could critique my fastest lap (1:17:91) at Wakefield. Maybe give me some pointers on my driving style to get some more speed.

http://youtu.be/ifyaNB5-7T4

The cars current setup is:

Stage 1 Custom Code
312mm front brakes w/ QFM A1RMs
Bilstein Suspension (High Pressure) with Shine Coils
Whiteline adjustable 22mm Rear sway set to hard
Stock 16" Montreal II's running Michelin Pilot Sport III tires
Stock Downpipe and Exhaust
Stock Intercooler
Stock Clutch and Dual Mass Flywheel
Stock Differential

[gldgti]

Nice lap!

I have almost no track experience, only 2 supersprints under my belt, but I think your driving is very nice. You appear very smooth which can only be a good thing.

I would only guess that you might shave some time off by braking harder (if its possible with your current setup) and trying to get some more front end grip as it looks from the video you only had one very small moment close to oversteer, the rest looked understeery...

My last time at wakefield, I found brakes were my limiting factor. I couldnt even do a complete lap with full braking effect.... so thats about where my knowledge ends.

I had to post though because I enjoyed your vid


***EDIT - noticed you are still running 16's which might account for the understeer, IME a lower profile tyre would give you better front grip in hard cornering, as the higher profile tyre on a car as heavy as the mk4 at hte front will tuck under a lot and you get a very un-even distribution of pressure accross the tyre contact patch (lots of pressure at the outside, very little at the inside). With a lower profile tyre, the stiffer sidewall will help stop that sideways deflection and load the contact area more evenly, you will have more front grip.

[jamesatfish]

I'm no expert or driver trainer, but here are my thoughts based upon the lines I took in my old Polo GTI:

http://youtu.be/yusoDKQrT-c

•Use more of the road in the corners, especially at turn 2 after the kink where you can run much closer to the left.

•I sacrificed the first apex in the fishhook to turn in tighter for the 2nd apex, because that meant the front wheels were straighter at the 2nd apex so the power got to the ground rather than pushing understeer.

•Turn in earlier and harder at turn 9 to carry more speed onto the back straight.

•Without knowing the capabilities of your brakes and tyres in that video, it looks like you can brake later and harder into turns 2, 8 and 10.

Best advice of course is just to spend more time at the track!

[Sirocco20348]

Thanks Guys! This was my 3rd time to Wakefield and I definitely improved every time I visited.

It was quite amusing the first time I went because I was contemplating my cars possible times by viewing the Motor magazine Wakefield Times.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VF1MFZQNnlHS1E

I looked at the Cars and associated times and thought to myself... hmmm a 1:15 should be fairly easy to achieve. The first time I went to Wakefield I was so nervous that my driving was absolute rubbish and I did not even beat the slowest time on the spreadsheet!

So all I wanted to beat from then on was the Mazda 2 time! Which i still think for Mazda 2 is absolutely amazing...

Anyway..

the rest looked understeery...

Your right its understeer central for the majority of it. I'm still taking some time understanding how to drive a FWD fast. I am fairly aggressive with my corner speeds as you can tell from the tyre squeeling, but I was trying to carry more speed through the corner.
I have tried late braking but my brakes lack a sense of urgency which then does not provide me with much confidence. I don't think its fade occurring but feels like the piston is not exerting enough pressure. Either way its real seat of the pants stuff when that corner is coming hard and fast. I think I need to build up my confidence threshold and trust the car to brake late.

The pilot sports have been quite a good tire but I have no others to compare to. The tread pattern doesn't lend itself to dry track work.

After these have worn out, I may give the hankook RS3's a try.

The other thing I find intriguing is tire pressures because i start the first session at 36psi and then at the end at a whoping 45psi! Its only by the 3rd session I have my tyre pressures under control.. but starting at quite a low psi and then relying on the heat generated during the session to bring it back up to 36psi... but always plays on my mind what is correct.

Use more of the road in the corners, especially at turn 2 after the kink where you can run much closer to the left.

Good advice, It's a confidence thing I have to work on.

I sacrificed the first apex in the fishhook to turn in tighter for the 2nd apex

I must admit I cringe at my effort of the fishhook in this video... I see what your saying thou because I notice I am always continually turning all the way to the 2nd apex and the lack of lsd is sending power to the unloaded wheel causing it to slip most of the time. I have to ease off the throttle until the car is straighter.

Turn in earlier and harder at turn 9 to carry more speed onto the back straight.

Of all the times I have attempted this corner, I have never been able to take it full throttle and it always causes brown trouser moments as the car starts to understeer off the track .. The guys in the gt86's fly through that corner.

Jamesatfish what were the specs on your polo? It seems to be fast and nimble around the track.

Thanks again for the comments

[gldgti]

With a golf like car, (I have done it in my mk1 cabby and my brothers ibiza gti) if you make the direction change just right before turn 9 you can get the car to turn in faster and carry more of an all wheel drift onto the straight rather than understeer through it.

having said that, both the cars I'm talking about have much less hp than your mk4 so im already driving to the limit of the acceleration of the car through there (the biza is and cabby both about 100hp).

I was overtaken by Rudi Frank between turns 8 and 9 and he seemed partial to all wheel drift through turn 9 in a beetle

[h100vw]

I have driven on some of those Hankook RS3s, really sticky on the road for sure. Definitely up the pressure in your tyres over road use. Less sidewall deflection results.

The next place I would spend money, is on some instruction. Hands down the best way of going faster.

I had the same brakes on the front of my S3 and they were only overcome on really mad laps at lakeside, I think the Golf would be fine for going harder.

Gavin

[kaanage]

I would get another set of rims and put semi slicks on them - stick with the 16" as the semis will have enough sidewall stiffness (if you want to do the big wheel styling thing, get the big rims for road use and save the stockies for the semis). And the semis won't chew out like road tyeres and you won't be compromised on the road with a tyre that has inadequate drainage.

Brakes should be fine - if they feel like they're getting soft, then change the fluid.

You don't have to spend on instruction if they allow passengers on your track days. Just get one of the experienced guys to sit in, observe and advise. And it even helps to have one of them follow you for a couple of laps and then you follow them, while they aren't going full tilt, if they have a similar car (ie not RWD, AWD, LSD).

[Sirocco20348]

I contemplated getting some driving tuition from John Boston at Wakefield but it was $500 for the day. I cheekily stood out of view while someone else who paid for tuition was being talked through the track lines. But would like to have my own one day.

Same with having a spare set of rims with semi's. I would love the idea of having a separate set of track tires sitting in the garage ready for those elusive track days. I'll settle for the hankooks next as I'm not racing for trophies. But I'll go get some semis one day to see what they are like.

I'm hoping to get out to lakeside or qr when time and money permits. I bought a schroth 4 point quick fit harness to make the driving position a bit easier. Hope to see some of you guys out at the track.

[piston broke]

If you can hook up with someone with a similar powered FWD car that is slightly quicker, follow them around for a few laps and you'll pick up braking points, lines etc. I check my tyre pressures after each track session to try and keep them in the sweet spot, I run Federal 595RSRs and have them at about 34psi hot in the dry and they're wearing fairly evenly across the tread.

I suggest with the QFMs that you don't let them get below 50% as they have a habit of disintegrating when pushing them on the track when they get worn this much, they are a great street/budget pad but I changed to Project Mu Club Racers which have better bite and greater longevity and peace of mind.

[Water Boy]

Good to see someone out driving their car! Iv done two track days at Wakefield and its a great track for a FWD.

My biggest advice is seat time. Nothing beats time in the seat learning and experimenting different lines and following other drivers.

As kaanage said get yourself some trackday wheels. Swap for track days and leave the fancy wide rims for street use.

And I believe these are worth a second. You dont have to worry about bracing yourself in the corners as much:
CG-Lock Autocross/Solo Driving
Can be used on any seatbelt and you dont need an expensive seat/harness.

[seangti]

Check out the Performance Box (Vbox) website, at the bottom they have a section title "Area's of Interest", download their ebook on circuit driving. It's a fantastic read, with different driving lines shown, circuits and video's with their telemetry.

I'm a big fan of data collection and can be done cheaper than a Vbox. Though their software/interface is sensational and probably worth the price for its ease of use. You do need an external GPS, a phone GPS isn't sufficient, but can be had for quite reasonable money if you're wanting to run it through your phone. Check out Harry's Lap timer as an example, but there are others. I run a GTech Fanatic RR GPS and gopro camera's, which I than pull together in RaceRender.

Happy to elaborate how I use this info to reflect and improve on my driving. There is also a thread in this section (motorsport) on some of things I've done/learnt with this data.