Biodiesel and your new TDI.

[Transporter]

In 10 years, i'll buy a mk6 tdi and do 160,000km in it on biodiesel, and then we'll see if its alright.

and again we will see the effect of biodiesel on old car and old fuel system.
Don’t wait 10 years, do it now.

[Greg Roles]

at the end of the day, i guess the conclusion is this (and correct me if you disagree): 'Biodiesel use is not recommended in an unmodified new tdi, due to the fact that the injection system controls and emissions controls are unsuited to dealing with the different physical proeprties of biodiesel, when compared with mineral diesel.'

Amen brother, modify and be happy! By the time bio hits my TDI, there won't be a lot of "stock" left.

[gldgti]

We will see again the effect of biodiesel on old car and old fuel system.
Don’t wait 10 years, do it now.

haha - i only just paid off my current car - no more debts for me for a good while...

[gavs]

I have read through this thread with great interest, and read the articles that Transporter has also posted, alot of good technicla data in there!!

BUT, in reference to a few of gldgti's points:

I used to own a Toyota 4x4 with a 2.4 turbo diesel. Mechanical injection. Nothing like the current crop of common rail and high pressure electronic injection systems.
Why is this relevent? Just after I bought the truck, Australian standards stipulated that the current diesel was to be replaced by the new ULSD, or Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel. Transporter mentions that he's a diesel mechanic so would understand the problems for older engines in relation to this new fuel. The lower sulpher content dramatically reduced the lubricity properties and hence was a "dryer" fuel, which in turn ate away at the old rubber seals in the older diesel injector pumps, as evidenced by after 4 months of running the new fuel, a previously perfect fuel injection system was now dripping fuel out of the pump.

There is still some speculation about this, but after speaking with several diesel mechanics, namely Rankin Diesel in bayswater, Victoria (ring and ask them what ULSD does to older diesel systems), i chose to run biodiesel, either B20 or B100. After this, I replaced 3 fuel filters in 4 months and the oil + filter after 2500kms twice. Relevence? after the new fuel filters and oil changes, I had nice, clear oil with each 5000km oil change, the leak slowed considerably and the truck ran much smoother.

How is this relevent to the original topic? As stated in your links Tranporter, it is down to quality of the fuel. This is a huge issue in the euopean and american winters where temperatures plummet, this is due to the tallow or Animal Fat content of the fuel solidifying and thickening the fuel. The other issue is particulate matter in the fuel due to improper filtration. I notice in one document, with the buses in colorado, that they used old buses which were previously fueled on crude-derived diesel which would have left years of gunk in the fuel systems.

I think the issue is that by running a high bio content diesel, this will clean the fuel systems, putting gunk into the fuel. If the the filter doesn't pick it up, then it can clog the highly toleranced common rail systems.


Remember also, that our diesel in Australia is still far below the EU standards in regards to fuel regulations, we still add sulphur to our diesel whereas they do not. Hence the reluctance to have the performance diesel varients of vehicles for BMW and Mercedes Benz.

I think that if a brand new vehicle was to run on EU B20 blend, EU B100, Regular Australian diesel and EU quality standard diesel, that would be an acurate test.

Finally, 2 points.

Remember the fiasco that was the ethanol-blend issue a few years back? That ethanol destroyed engines? and yet all the vehicle manufacturers around the world have at least 1 "flex-fuel" enginee, with all other engines capable of running on ethanol blends. Lets just not mention the environmental impat from farming all the corn to produce it....

Diesel has it's back against the wall in the EU. It is now being proven to be attributed to a growing number of deaths due to new particulate filters reducing the size of soot particles, which can now enter the blood stream where before they could be expeled from the lungs. Car's are now dispossable, meant to last 3 years. I know if presented with running bio over regular diesel in a new Mk6 Golf, i'd pick bio every time, purely for the health impact.

Need a link to back up these claims? here's a whole list.

http://search.who.int/search?ie=utf8&site=default_collection&client=WHO&proxystylesheet=WHO&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf8&q=diesel+particulate+matter

[Greg Roles]

Now that's interesting. Just when you think you're doing the right thing with a DPF....

[Transporter]

If it was so life threatening all the vehicles with the DPF would be recalled and DPF removed.
And maybe it will come to it.

http://www.atzonline.com/index.php;do=show/alloc=1/lng=en/id=9754/site=a4e/sid=25503e2afdcc8883a2ba3f31b6bf8868

Don't believe in everything what you hear or read from the media, make your assumption, use your knowledge and remember that life is full of compromises and don’t just see the “The conspiracy theory” behind everything.

[gldgti]

If it was so life threatening all the vehicles with the DPF would be recalled and DPF removed.

well, maybe...

theres a heck of a lot of dosh to me made out of replaceing DPF's once all the current new cars get a bit older....

OFF TOPIC...
its like the argument "if mobile phones were dangerous, they wouldnt be sold or would be sold with warnings..." - so now after 15years of boom times, the number of people with benign tumours in their jaws and ears is getting too many to just put down to coincindence... i reckon we can accurately predict a not too far off new range of "healthy" mobile phones with low peak microwave signatures...

[Spoddy]

I also put this question in the diesel thread but I should have put it in here...

I just lifted this from the NRMA site:

"The NSW Government is legislating at the time of writing to require all diesel to contain 2 per cent biodiesel up to 2011 and 5 per cent from 2012 onwards."

What does this do to us TDIs where VW won't let us use biodiesel under warranty?

[gldgti]

warranty conditions allow up to 5% biodiesel.... you're already covered.

[Spoddy]

warranty conditions allow up to 5% biodiesel.... you're already covered.

That was a simple resolution

[250 downunder]

I am progressively increasing the percentage of Bio in my MkV TDI. Up to 25% currently and it loves it. I make my own Bio and test every batch. I wash until I have neutral PH and dry until there is minimal water content. It is filtered through a 5 micron water block filter before it goes into the vehicle.
No problems to date and I don't expect any.
I also run an F250 [7.3L Turbo Diesel] on 100% Bio and the only problem to date has been with fuel hoses which I have now overcome. I have an exhaust gas temperature gauge on this vehicle and it definately runs cooler on Bio.
I shudder when I read about Bio being made by adding crushed "moth balls" to used vegetable oil. It is little wonder car manufacturers decline warranty when Bio has been used.

[oracle1]

all production issues

This is a gray area due to the wide variety of source materials used to make biodiesel, which means there are lots of undesirable finished products that could end up in your fuel tank. This kind of uncertainty can make FIE manufacturers toss and turn in their beds at night worrying about bad stuff roaming through their equipment such as:* Free methanol* Water* Free glycerine* Mono-, di-, and triglycerides* Free fatty acids* Solid particles* Oxidated fuel

all production issues none of which effect me as the bio comes str8 of the centrifuge as made by my hand.

[oracle1]

do not do this

Making biodiesel is really easy:
-Filter fryer oil with a calico bag
-Dissolve napthaline (crushed moth balls) into it
-Filter again
-QED

this sort of process gives bio a bad name

[DutchAussie]

Dutch aussie and a few others make there own with no complication.

I would be interested to know there thoughts on your Bio recipe as I think its a
bit more complicated than that to make.

Have you actually tried this recipe.

Hi Guys,

I have now done 30,300 Km on home made Biodiesel and the Caddy is purring.
My book has been out for months now and is available from me or from Think Global.
You will find more information on my sites below.

Regards,

Arie (DutchAussie)

[The Last Streetfighter]

After the report I read from Audi on biodiesel based on the transesterification process, I would never go near it in my own vehicles.
After the change to fuel lines and injextors and pump that my dad had to do from using home made biodiesel and straight run cooking oil (highly filtered) I would not use that in a car post 1995.