Octavia now at Stage II ...

[Martin]

So, today I picked up my car from the shop having had a fair amount of work done to it:
-Carbonio cold air intake box and intake tube
-APR 3" exhaust down pipe and high flow rate catalyst
-APR ECU Stage II firmware
-APR (VMR?) Roll bars
-VMR springs (20mm lower)
-Supaloy lower control arms

When I bought the car, I drove 39km from the dealer to the shop and had it flashed to Stage 1
This is probably all I would encourage most people to do - it gave great performance and value for money

But I wanted more and there are a few issues
The top end power was a little worse than stock and tapered off early,
as such I was short changing and driving on the big torque boost you get
I thought it would be really nice if the power went all the way to red line
Hence I went for the cold air intake and 3" exhaust for breathing + ECU Stage II
(The Stage II power/torque is only a bit more than Stage 1 - so why not?)
The throttle was very non linear (stock is a bit like that also)
Low throttle opennings were smooth - good for when wife & parents are passengers
But once you get past 40% it was like flicking a switch - instant change of power/aggression/noise/urgency

So after these latest engine changes, it's very different
(The guys at the shop commented on how quick it the car is)
The engine has more torque from lower down, it's got seemless pulling power everywhere
The engine now revs out to redline without any sense of a slowing accelleration rate (or asma)
The throttle is much more linear - but still very easy to drive normal and smooth
It does not have the alarming night and day performance change - it's much more progressive
The traction control used to be a bit harsh and counter productive (by design I guess)
The traction control is now smoother and unintrusive
I now keep my foot in the throttle and let the TC deal with the problem
Fast starts are easier - a chirp from the wheels and then we fly away at a surprising rate
I can only assume this because the torque is smoother and available at lower RPM
(Stage I used to come on power hard at 2500 and break traction)
Maybe the supaloy control arms are also making fast starts better?
I can break traction in 2nd gear - but no axel tramp as yet (early days)

The downside to going Stage II??? It clearly not for everybody
The rasping exhaust sound is louder and somewhat unpleasant
This is both from the rear and front due to the large exhaust downpipe
You can at times get engine resonsance from engine braking as you slow down
This can be avoided by manually changing down early - if you can be bothered
You now hear inlet air noises also - sucking and whistles
These are only an issue when actually using the power
although the engine idle may be a little louder due to the large exhaust downpipe

The Octavia fundamentally handles well and does not have much roll - until you really load it up
The wheels are bit thumpy/noisy over rough stuff
While the ride is pretty nice, it's not soft or smooth, pretty good compromised really
yet it's also not well connected until you have a decent/constant cornering load
So (given this is our second car - my useful fun thing) I decided to try new springs and roll bars
The car looks better with the guards 30mm above the tyres
So it's not obviously lowered and won't attract undue attention (sleeper!)
The handling is certainly better - really well connected to the road
The cornering is flatter and inspires confidence/trust
The damping seems better - no more thumps or bounces - although you do feel all undulations
(Less weight with the supaloy control arms? Wheels are much lighter than stock also)
Again, the downside, you feel most ripples in the road surface
Driving down poor roads may irratate after a bad day at the office
It's certainly imparted a firm edge to the ride that family folk may not warm to

The supaloy control arms have a bit more caster,
the car drives dead straight for ages with no steering guidance
Initial turn in is more crisp and direct - need more km to comment further

On the stock ECU mapping I get ~565km from a tank
On the APR Stage I ECU mapping I get ~515km from a tank (travelling to/from work wth a little fun)
That was great, happy to leave it in the APR fun mode all the time so the power is available all the time
So - what will happen to the fuel economy with the APR Stage II ECU mapping?
Let me get one "fun" tank out of the way before I test the fuel economy

[Tweeked]

Hahaha thats cool...... I don't think I have been able to do a fuel economy test in 10,000km.... too much fun under the right foot.

[Mysticality]

Awesome little write up!... I don't spose APR does TDI stage 2, do they?

[Tigger]

So, today I picked up my car from the shop having had a fair amount of work done to it:
-Carbonio cold air intake box and intake tube
-APR 3" exhaust down pipe and high flow rate catalyst
-APR ECU Stage II firmware
-APR (VMR?) Roll bars
-VMR springs (20mm lower)
-Supaloy lower control arms

When I bought the car, I drove 39km from the dealer to the shop and had it flashed to Stage 1
This is probably all I would encourage most people to do - it gave great performance and value for money

But I wanted more and there are a few issues
The top end power was a little worse than stock and tapered off early,
as such I was short changing and driving on the big torque boost you get
I thought it would be really nice if the power went all the way to red line
Hence I went for the cold air intake and 3" exhaust for breathing + ECU Stage II
(The Stage II power/torque is only a bit more than Stage 1 - so why not?)
The throttle was very non linear (stock is a bit like that also)
Low throttle opennings were smooth - good for when wife & parents are passengers
But once you get past 40% it was like flicking a switch - instant change of power/aggression/noise/urgency

So after these latest engine changes, it's very different
(The guys at the shop commented on how quick it the car is)
The engine has more torque from lower down, it's got seemless pulling power everywhere
The engine now revs out to redline without any sense of a slowing accelleration rate (or asma)
The throttle is much more linear - but still very easy to drive normal and smooth
It does not have the alarming night and day performance change - it's much more progressive
The traction control used to be a bit harsh and counter productive (by design I guess)
The traction control is now smoother and unintrusive
I now keep my foot in the throttle and let the TC deal with the problem
Fast starts are easier - a chirp from the wheels and then we fly away at a surprising rate
I can only assume this because the torque is smoother and available at lower RPM
(Stage I used to come on power hard at 2500 and break traction)
Maybe the supaloy control arms are also making fast starts better?
I can break traction in 2nd gear - but no axel tramp as yet (early days)

The downside to going Stage II??? It clearly not for everybody
The rasping exhaust sound is louder and somewhat unpleasant
This is both from the rear and front due to the large exhaust downpipe
You can at times get engine resonsance from engine braking as you slow down
This can be avoided by manually changing down early - if you can be bothered
You now hear inlet air noises also - sucking and whistles
These are only an issue when actually using the power
although the engine idle may be a little louder due to the large exhaust downpipe

The Octavia fundamentally handles well and does not have much roll - until you really load it up
The wheels are bit thumpy/noisy over rough stuff
While the ride is pretty nice, it's not soft or smooth, pretty good compromised really
yet it's also not well connected until you have a decent/constant cornering load
So (given this is our second car - my useful fun thing) I decided to try new springs and roll bars
The car looks better with the guards 30mm above the tyres
So it's not obviously lowered and won't attract undue attention (sleeper!)
The handling is certainly better - really well connected to the road
The cornering is flatter and inspires confidence/trust
The damping seems better - no more thumps or bounces - although you do feel all undulations
(Less weight with the supaloy control arms? Wheels are much lighter than stock also)
Again, the downside, you feel most ripples in the road surface
Driving down poor roads may irratate after a bad day at the office
It's certainly imparted a firm edge to the ride that family folk may not warm to

The supaloy control arms have a bit more caster,
the car drives dead straight for ages with no steering guidance
Initial turn in is more crisp and direct - need more km to comment further

On the stock ECU mapping I get ~565km from a tank
On the APR Stage I ECU mapping I get ~515km from a tank (travelling to/from work wth a little fun)
That was great, happy to leave it in the APR fun mode all the time so the power is available all the time
So - what will happen to the fuel economy with the APR Stage II ECU mapping?
Let me get one "fun" tank out of the way before I test the fuel economy

Sounds awesome Martin!
You have given me a bit to think about! (and plan??)
Cant wait to see and hear it on the 2nd!! you are still coming right??

[Martin]

Yes mate, I'll be there on the 2nd

The interesting test will be Saturday when I take the wife and parents to Kiama
Let's see if she notices (or complains about) any difference in the car

I did encounter some messy torque steer this morning
(Lane change from stationary with too much throttle)

When I got the car last night I was a little surprised at how firm the ride was
I had been driving a very soft BMW 735 for 3 days - the contrast was huge
But driving to work this morning, the car did not feel unduly hard/stiff

I am seldom using full throttle - just don't need to - it goes hard long before reaching full throttle
(In another thread I see people naming their car - I want to call my VRS "Lethal Weapon")

The Carbonio carbon air intake is a work of art

[Martin]

You have given me a bit to think about! (and plan??)

I reckon StageI ECU and the Supaloy controls arms would be a good upgrade plan

Going past that you need to be a focused/enthusiastic driver with a keen interest in motorsport

The air inlet, exhaust and StageII ECU have really improved the engine performance to a wonderful level,
with some undersirable cabin noise from the intake and exhaust - you need to be able to live with that

[cbay]

That sounds awesome Martin. You should have a chat to my bro about similarities / differences with APR Stg2 on his Mkv GTI. We should be coming along on the 2nd.

How much do the supaloy control arms change the driving feel? I've always been interested to see if they're a worthy upgrade to the handling.

[Martin]

You should have a chat to my bro about similarities / differences with APR Stg2 on his Mkv

We would wax lyrical about it all day!

How much do the supaloy control arms change the driving feel?

So far I only have limited observations:
-Massive reduction in axle tramp issues
-Tracks dead straight on it's own for miles
-Initial turn in is more crisp/responsive

[Weekend-Warrior]

Sounds great! Are you worried about volding the warranty?

[The Speedfighter]

Sounds great! Are you worried about volding the warranty?

I was about to ask the same question

[Weekend-Warrior]

Interested to hear the exhaust. Does it have a GTi DSG farty sort of exhaust sound on upshifts? That's all I want!

Also do you have dyno chart to show where the gains have been made.

[Martin]

Sounds great! Are you worried about volding the warranty?

Not at all mate - I want to enjoy the car and experience
I am planning on 10k oil changes as a easy/cheap way to look after the engine
(I got this car so cheap that it would not matter if I incurred a big service cost)
Ultimately I can see me converting this car into my club circuit racer

Interested to hear the exhaust. Does it have a GTi DSG farty sort of exhaust sound on upshifts? That's all I want!

Also do you have dyno chart to show where the gains have been made.

It is a DSG but there are no farty exhaust sounds during upshifts
(Well, not that I can hear inside the car - maybe from an observers perspective, dunno)

I have not had it on the dyno - don't need to, the gains are significant and across the board
It's something that would be interesting to do but would need a stock car also for back to back comparison

[dArK5HaD0w]

some very nice mods there.
looking forward to seeing all the bits & bobs on the 2nd.

[MacVW]

Hi Martin. You have actually done all the mods that I have been researching and planning on doing. I have been worried about voiding the warranty. I know for a fact that DSGs are not cheap to fix. I work in car sales for a major Brisbane dealership and we do have Skoda/VW dealership franchises. I have discussed doing such tunes with the service manager and whether I could get away with even a stage 1 tune. He swears that their software picks up any changes to the ECU. If a warranty issue arises and they can show the ECU has been remapped and that this may have caused the fault they can legally void the warranty. He is not saying that he would do so in my case but it is a possibility. It is a bit of a conundrum for me. How far can or should I go? How important is the warranty? Can I afford to not have a warranty? Should I consider extending the warranty? From your description of the results from the APR Stage II upgrade it sounds like you have the RS running just as I have imagined that it should from factory. I have driven several, DSG, manual, Tsi and TDi, liftback and wagons. I love the drive and the feel, but I have always felt it needed that bit more. Thank you for listing your upgrades and results. It has given me food for thought.

[Martin]

Hey MacVW

There are legal conventions and precidents in place whereby manufacturers can't void warranty without "due cause" (a lot of greay area there however)

There is no way engine tuning will impact the DSG mechatronics

Frying the clutch is a different matter - that is torque related for sure
The DSG remapping agents say the standard clutch (6 Speed) is good for 360nm
The Stage II give 325nm of torque - I'm comfortable with that
If you remap the DSG also, more clutch pressure is applied to prevent burn out

Nothing really bad will happen to the engine, but clearly if it fails you're on your own
In my 30 years of driving I've lost 1 engine and elected to rebuild 2 (pre-emptive)
I am planning on 10K engine oil changes as a cheap preventative measure

The APR (and others) firmware remap is not detectable by the factory service equipment
They just don't have the equipment or training to deal with ECU programming
(Older physical chip soldering methods were obvious)
If you only run Stage 1 you can clear the fault codes a month before service,
select the factory mapping and then lockout the APR ECU functions
When you go Stage II the exhaust and Carbino intake are obvious clues that changes have been made

You could wait for the factory warranty to expire before making these changes
If you buy a car on finance that may also hold you back (I always buy cars outright)

Also note there are a number of people who's engine/DSG claims have not been serviced by the factory warranty
Also note, the number of engine/DSG problems reported on this forum are a small part of total sales

This $32k car is a small % of my overall finances (house, investment property, managed funds, two cars, etc)
In another two years I guess this car will be worth less that $20k
Year by year it quickly becomes a less significant part of your financial position
Ultimately it will become a liability due to age, mileage and wear/tear
And even if you have a problem, you are looking at $2.5k~$4.5k which is even less of a concern
My 60" 3D LED TV cost $3.4k and is almost one year old - if it dies I will run out and get another
In my mind it's a similar situation with the engine/gearbox

If I did have a problem, and could not get factory assistance, I would not get the work done by a dealer
I'm finding that performance shops are doing more and better work per hour than some dealers

I've had numerous nice cars that I kept in factory condition - limiting the enjoyment and experience
This car really appeals to me, I want to enjoy it and even take it on the ocasional track day
Ultimately I would like to convert it into my club race toy - roll cage and all
I was looking for a car in the 170kw~190kw range
In stock format the Octavia is quick but not fast
I may not have bought this car if the ECU updates were not available
(I drove it directly from the dealer to an APR agent and flashed it immediately)

But each to their own - we all have different values and situations