vRS Spare Woes

[kaanage]

Can you get hold of a jackstand so that you can prop up one end while swapping the tyres? Since you need to drive on the spare for a while, it is much safer to have the spare on the rear since the front does the steering, most of the braking and the accelerating.

Or can you borrow the spare tyre and wheel from someone else with a Skoda Octavia or Superb? (or another VAG equivalent with 5/112 wheels).

[Diesel_vert]

Did I mention our full-size spare tyres are rated for 80km/h?
No?
Well, they are.

That's mainly related to the fact that your car is using different sized wheels and tyres. If you had 205/55 R16 tyres all round, that 80 km/h speed limit wouldn't apply.

Seeing as the spare is only a 16", getting a replacement for that shouldn't be all *that* expensive.

Afterall... I'm now at 1,700km on the spare. :/

Don't replace it. Your spare is a normal tyre - not a space saver tyre. It has plenty of life left in them.

I didn't actually think of that when I was doing it, and I'm not willing to put any weight on that wheel at the moment.

Even if it's fully deflated, it won't matter. As long as the wheel doesn't make contact with the ground, it'll be fine, so get cracking!

The tyres would have been replaced, but I cannot actually afford the $545 for the new tyres, at the moment.

Just get one brand new tyre off eBay for cheap (the car is already compromised anyway by running a 205/55 R16 tyre). It is not illegal to use different makes and models, as long as they're radial and not cross-ply. You can then replace both when you're ready and in your own time. Also, save the wheel alignment until then.

As it is, your vehicle is not roadworthy because of the different wheel and tyre size on the same axle. If you are involved in an accident, the cost of two new tyres will be the least of your worries.

I'm going to get a full alignment done when I get the two new tyres put on, as well as get them to rotate the rear Dunlops to the front. Might as well let the other set of horribly loud tyres wear out first, right?

Once you've done that, you can then use the cheap eBay tyre as your new full-sized, full-speed spare tyre when you eventually buy your spare Neptune alloy.

[brad]

I don't have a second jack to allow me to swap them, else I would have already.

You don't need a 2nd jack.

If you have a flat front tyre then:
jack up the rear & fit the spare to the rear.
jack up the front & put the rear tyre on front
attempt to put full size wheel in space designed for space saver spare.

I'm not just quoting out of the manual. I had to do it on my old Cabrio a couple of times. It takes about 20 minutes if you haven't got a boot full of gear & are parked somewhere safe like a garage forecourt.

[kaanage]

This was Mysticality's response when I made (basically) the same comment a few posts earlier:

I didn't actually think of that when I was doing it, and I'm not willing to put any weight on that wheel at the moment.

[Diesel_vert]

This was Mysticality's response when I made (basically) the same comment a few posts earlier:

I didn't actually think of that when I was doing it, and I'm not willing to put any weight on that wheel at the moment.

Yeah, I read that, and thought it was an odd statement.

As I said in my reply to his posts, why would it matter that the tyre can't support itself (damaged, deflated, or otherwise) when you only need it to support a static load for 20 minutes, and so long as the tyre carcass prevents the wheel making direct contact with the pavement?

This is an ordinary situation that many motorists around the world might deal with, and is hardly a unique, special or difficult problem.

[brad]

Sorry, hadn't read the other replies before I posted.

I'm sure the tyre retailer would fit 1 tyre for $250 & hold the other for a few weeks until you could afford it.

[powerd]

G'day

I had the Michelin Premacy (I think it was called) on the car from new, a good tyre with great wear - about 43,000kms from new on front. Then Pirelli PZero Neros which were a brilliant handling tyre(expensive, but I got a deal) but lousy wear - only around 23,000kms on front. Now have Michelin Pilot Sport 3 which are even better but too soon to tell about wear.

A couple of questions. What specific law makes the vehicle unroadworthy when the spare is on? The smaller wheel has a normal tyre of a higher profile which gives it virtually the same rolling radius. The tyre dealer told me it was in the range allowed, but was not able to show me the specific regulation which defined the registration requirements. I have asked this question, even of my insurance company, and no-one seems to be able to answer it definitively. They didn't want to comment on legality.

Does anyone have the technical knowledge of the laws to answer this, and point to the exact rules? If I drove on it, and the vehicle was involved in an accident, how could the insurance company reject a claim when they insured a vehicle which has a spacesaver spare? And since most cars have them now, there must have been a number of accidents with them on, and I have never heard of any reliable reports of a claim being rejected.

By the way, I got a puncture and needed to put my spare on the rear for a few days. I did a little test on a twisty road. I could only notice a minor difference on turn-in and a slight reduction in traction, the latter only getting near the limit. In all other driving, there was no discernible difference, except a slight noise reduction and softer ride.

[brad]

Tyres on the same axle must be the same size. RMA publication vsi09 rev4. It's old (2003) but still relevant at a basic level.

Don’t mix tyre types or sizes if you can possibly avoid this. Never mix radials with cross-ply tyres on one axle. If you
have only two radials, they must be on the rear wheels. Always make sure that both front tyres and both back tyres
are the same.

plus there's all the common sense bits previously stated about differing levels of grip from the spare playing havoc with ABS/ESC/ and the actual mechanical grip on the road.

One thing not mentioned is that a lot of space saver spares are not the same diameter as the road tyre. If fitted on the front, this could cause damage to a mechanical type LSD. I'm not sure what affect it would have on the electronic LSDs.

I think if you drove on the supplied spacesaver, fitted to the vehicle & driven in accordance with the information supplied in the owners manual, then the insurance company can't deny your claim.

[Diesel_vert]

If I drove on it, and the vehicle was involved in an accident, how could the insurance company reject a claim when they insured a vehicle which has a spacesaver spare? And since most cars have them now, there must have been a number of accidents with them on, and I have never heard of any reliable reports of a claim being rejected.

One of the conditions of using an unmatched spare tyre, is that the damaged tyre should be tended to as soon as possible. Another condition is that the vehicle should be driven in a cautious manner. And just in case one hasn't got the message, there is also the 80 km/h speed limit.

Now, if despite following all of the above conditions, you are involved in an accident, it is probable that a reasonable insurance assessor will not reject a claim based on use of the vehicle's standard unmatched spare tyre.

However, as the vehicle is technically not roadworthy, the option to reject the claim remains open nonetheless.

[Mysticality]

Just a point - The Octavia's spare is NOT a space-saver. It is a full-sized 16" steel rim, with the same tyre width as the stock 18" Neptune.
The Neptune actually fits under the boot mat perfectly.

An interesting piece of information: I had to floor it to avoid someone running a red light (Slamming braked would have left me in the middle of the intersection - not the place to be) and the Dunlop let go, whilst the Conti (spare) kept full grip. Was rather impressed.

The 16" Conti (spare) is a fully road-legal tyre. Its probably the tyre they ship on the stock 16" rims supplied with the base model Octavia.

Took the vehicle to another tyre shop to get a different quote today; $180/tyre + $77 for alignment. (Some random Kumho's, but at 20,000km a pop it doesn't really matter, I figure)
I popped the question to the guy about having to replace the spare, he looked at me and said something along the lines of "Nah. Its fine. Its a real tyre. Whack it back in the boot and forget about it."

The Octavia doesn't have an electronic LSD, per-se. It just uses the ABS system to transfer torque between wheels.

Another note: If I had an actual space-saver spare (Think Yaris, Micra, etc) then I would not be driving the vehicle at all. But as it is a 'real tyre,' I feel safe in using it (albeit carefully) until I can afford two replacements.

Quick question; Does anyone know if the Dunlops are directional? MV Skoda didn't rotate my tyres at the 15,000 service which leads me to believe that they might be. Else it doesn't sound right.

As for the inability to swap the spare to the rear, I don't have the time (2,200km driving since weds. 16th), plus work, plus family life.

Nor the cash to purchase someones old alloy off eBay, although thats a bloody good idea that I'll have to remember next pay day.

[Diesel_vert]

Just a point - The Octavia's spare is NOT a space-saver. It is a full-sized 16" steel rim, with the same tyre width as the stock 18" Neptune.

There is a slight difference in rolling circumference:

205/55 R16 = 1928 mm
225/40 R18 = 1943 mm

It's not much, but it's there.

The 16" Conti (spare) is a fully road-legal tyre. Its probably the tyre they ship on the stock 16" rims supplied with the base model Octavia.

There is nothing illegal about your spare. The issue is that it's a different size to your current wheels and tyres, hence rendering your vehicle unroadworthy if fitted.

Quick question; Does anyone know if the Dunlops are directional?

Directional tyres will have an arrow indicating the direction of rotation marked on the sidewall.

As for the inability to swap the spare to the rear, I don't have the time (2,200km driving since weds. 16th), plus work, plus family life.

You don't need much - maybe 30 minutes at the most.

[brad]

Just a point - The Octavia's spare is NOT a space-saver. It is a full-sized 16" steel rim, with the same tyre width as the stock 18" Neptune.
The Neptune actually fits under the boot mat perfectly.

I know the tyre & rim combo. Yes, it's exactly the same as an Elegance spec spare. My steel spare is exactly the same dimensions as my OEM alloys (offset included) & the Conti is exactly the same model as the road tyres. Yet they still have an 80kmh limit on it - go figure.

In your case, isn't the stock rim 8" wide & the stock tyre a 245/40x18? Whereas the spare is 6.5" wide & the tyre is a 205/55? Therefore not the same width?

An interesting piece of information: I had to floor it to avoid someone running a red light (Slamming braked would have left me in the middle of the intersection - not the place to be) and the Dunlop let go, whilst the Conti (spare) kept full grip. Was rather impressed.

Because the traction control kicked in?

Took the vehicle to another tyre shop to get a different quote today; $180/tyre + $77 for alignment. (Some random Kumho's, but at 20,000km a pop it doesn't really matter, I figure)
I popped the question to the guy about having to replace the spare, he looked at me and said something along the lines of "Nah. Its fine. Its a real tyre. Whack it back in the boot and forget about it."

So you've been to two tyre places & neither has commented on the spacesaver being on the front? They must be experts in their field.

And you haven't asked either if they'd jack the car up & swap them? When I was selling tyres we were always happy to do something simple like that for free - it gets the customers back. Last year, Jax in Campbelltown stripped my old BBS rims for nothing as a "come back later" gesture.

I would have thought as a P-Plater, you'd be doing your utmost to stop the cops from having an excuse to pull you over.

GL with it all.

edit: maybe get yourself outside swapping wheels rather than wasting time justifying yourself on a forum?

[woofy]

Yep I'd just swap it, it won't take long and for no other reason except it's dicey having that wheel there. It would be the width of the tyre making a space saver temp, if that was the same, it pretty much would be ok to stay on it indefinitely.

On that note, with our previous 6, the spare was identical to the outside tyres and I always wondered whether it should be rotated when the rest are, after a while it was still brand new and the rest were worn so we just left it there. With our Santa Fe it has a normal spare, so wondering whether from the get go I should get the spare rotated as well from new. The dealers never suggest it, but that means diddly squat.

[brad]

I would include it in the rotation schedule.

[Diesel_vert]

Let's clarify some of the terminology:

Full-size spare: 205/55 R16 91V tyre on a 6.5 x 16 wheel.

Temporary spare or "space-saver": T 125/70 R16 96M tyre on a 3.5 x 16 wheel.

Remember folks, if your spare (whether it be full-sized or a space-saver) is unmatched, the vehicle is technically not roadworthy. Therefore, unmatched factory spare tyres should only be used as intended - i.e. temporary use only.

In your case, isn't the stock rim 8" wide & the stock tyre a 245/40x18? Whereas the spare is 6.5" wide & the tyre is a 205/55? Therefore not the same width?

IIRC, the vRS is fitted with 225/40 R18 92Y XL tyres on 7.5 x 18 wheels.

In any case, the width of the factory spare wheel and tyre is obviously not the same.


OP should by now have more than enough information to make an informed decision.