Octavia Towbar Blues

[wfdTamar]

Found a place where you can get 13 core cable by the meter (and a 13 pin Euro plug) if you want to make an adaptor (1 metre and a socket was $45 shipped). 12 pin flat socket off ebay for $25. I couldn't find 12 or 13 core cable anywhere in Australia or on ebay.

Trailers::Towbars::Trailer Parts::Trailer Spares and Accessories from Western Towing

[wfdTamar]

Bit puzzled over how to wire a 13-pin Euro plug to 12-pin flat socket. Issues are:

a. 13-pin Euro has no electric brakes pin. How do they do electric brakes in Europe?

Could you connect pin 5 on the 12-pin flat to the stop lights pin (pin 6 on the 13-pin) just for the signal, but get power for the electric brakes from pin 9 (ignition switched power 12-pin), then put a relay in the caravan? That might work for your own caravan (where you can custom wire it), but you really want to do it in a way that works for all. How about a relay INSIDE the adaptor lead?

I'm a little unsure how powered trailer/caravan brakes work. From my reading the above solution may not work as the power for electric brakes needs to be variable because caravan's brake force can be varied by the driver.

Maybe for a custom wired adaptor (only for your caravan) you could use pin 12 of the 13-pin Euro for electric brakes (since it's currently not used)? You'd have to add that function to the socket on the car.

Or use the first solution but with caravan brakes that can be adjusted on the caravan (so obviously couldn't be varied when driving)?



b. 13-pin Euro has a right tail and a left tail pin. 12-pin flat has the one tail light pin. How's this handled in the VW adaptor?

b: The car needs to be told it is located in Australia, this changes the wire detection to allow for Australian single bus (One wire for all park (wfdTamar - do you mean tail?)and one wire for all Stop lights.) 7 conductor trailer wiring instead of the dual bus (Left and right side of trailer for stop and park(tail)) used in Europe.

b: This also has been cabled for in the 13-7 adapter. Pins 5,7 of the 13 go through diodes to pin 7 on the 7 pin.

Any more detail about those diodes? What value are they and how are they wired up? Any chance of a good photo?

Swallowtail:
5 and 7 from the 13 pin are each fed into a IN5404 rectifier (rectifier or diode?), and then joined together and connected to the 7 pin conenctor number 7 - which is for tail lights. The rectifiers have a reverse impedance of 1.7kohms.

But didn't someone else say only pin 5 (of the 13-pin) is connected to pin 7 and the Australian coding takes care of that? Any more detail about those diodes? What value are they and how are they wired up? Any chance of a good photo? Do both pins (on 13-pin) get connected to pin 7 (12-pin) or just pin 5 (13-pin)?


c. What do you connect the earth return on the 12-pin flat (pin 10) to? Euro pin 10, or pin 13, or both? If both, does that require a diode(s) too?

I'm not terribly familiar with diodes and stuff in that area (could ya guess?).


13-pin round Euro
1. left indicator
2. rear fog
3. earth return
4. right indicator
5. right tail & sidelights
6. stop lights
7. left tail & sidelights & number plate
8. reverse
9. permanent 12 volt (interior lights and charging)
10. auxiliary, ignition switched 12 volt (fridges)
11. earth for pin 10
12. signal connector (not used on VAG cars)
13. earth for pin 9


12-pin flat(and the Euro pin it's connected to)
1. left indicator (1)
2. reverse (8 )
3. earth return (3)
4. right indicator (4)
5. electric brakes What do you connect this to?
6. stop lights (6)
7. tail lights do you connect this to the Euro 5 & 7 - how?
---------(pins 1-7 are the same as a flat 7-pin connector)---------
8. permanent 12 volt (interior lights and charging) (9)
9. auxiliary, ignition switched 12 volt (fridges) (10)
10. earth return (11 or 13 or both?)
11. rear fog (2)
12. aux/spare (seems not used)

[Mysticality]

13-pin round Euro
1. left indicator
2. rear fog
3. earth return
4. right indicator
5. right tail & sidelights
6. stop lights
7. left tail & sidelights & number plate
---------(pins 1-7 are the same as a flat 7-pin connector)---------
8. reverse
9. permanent 12 volt (interior lights and charging)
10. auxiliary, ignition switched 12 volt (fridges)
11. earth for pin 10
12. signal connector (not used on VAG cars)
13. earth for pin 9

Not true.
Flat-7's, at least in Aus, are as follows:

1. LH indicator
2. Reverse (Often not used)
3. Gnd
4. RH indicator
5. Elec. brakes
6. Brake
7. Parkers

Most of the time, pin 2 is used for +12v.
At least, thats how our vehicles/caravans/trailers have been wired up since I can remember.

[wfdTamar]

---------(pins 1-7 are the same as a flat 7-pin connector)---------


Whoops, I put that line in the wrong group (now corrected).

When you say '7. Parkers' I presume you're meaning tail lights? Is it a northern states thing to call them parkers?


Good wiring diagrams info on the Narva site.

http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/wiring-diagrams

[wfdTamar]

Discovered why there's no electric brake pin on the Euro 13-pin - electric brakes are illegal in Europe. They have to use overrun mechanical brakes (whatever they are). So the question still is - how do you wire up for electric brakes on a car here that has the 13-pin socket?

One persons solution (used the stop light pin as signal for the brake controller then sent that through the unused pin-12)
Post #7 here:

http://www.ausamarok.com/showthread.php?tid=396

Comments found elsewhere:
On an Amarok (also some Audi Q's) - Under the dash near the steering wheel column there are three elect. plugs (yellow, purple and grey) with nothing pluged into them. You want the grey plug, pin 1 (black/green) for the trigger power of the brake controller (not the stop lamp wire). This is the brake sense wire. Power wire to pin 4 (red/brown) grey plug which is good for 32amps. High beam for driving light relay (LH HB) purple pin 8 (white/black) or (RH HB) yellow pin 1 (white/red). They're taped together above the clutch pedal.

Your (aftermarket) brake controller will have 4 wires out of it; the blue wire runs from the controller to your trailer plug at your tow bar (that's be the one you might put through pin-12), white to earth, black is power wire connected to pin 4 of grey plug under dash and red is the controllers sense wire conected to pin 1 of same plug. It can be hard see the pin numbers so go by the wire colours as stated above.

For driving lights:
I just connected my spotty relay between the purple pin8 (white/black wire) and the neg batt terminal and hey presto, works a treat! Power for spotties taken directly from batt pos, via inline fuse to relay switches, out to lights then back to batt neg.

[gldgti]

Discovered why there's no electric brake pin on the Euro 13-pin - electric brakes are illegal in Europe. They have to use overrun mechanical brakes (whatever they are).

Inertial brakes - like is fitted to most car trailers. When there's compressive load applied to the drawbar (tow vehicle braking) the tailer brakes take up. Good system, works proportionally, and doesnt rely on working electrics.

[Mysticality]

---------(pins 1-7 are the same as a flat 7-pin connector)---------


Whoops, I put that line in the wrong group (now corrected).

When you say '7. Parkers' I presume you're meaning tail lights? Is it a northern states thing to call them parkers?


Good wiring diagrams info on the Narva site.

Wiring Diagrams - Products - Narva

"Parkers" is basically the switch position between 'low beam' and 'off.'

Front and rear 'tail lights' on.
Afterall, you don't call the front ones 'tail lights' do you?


EDIT: I hate inertia brakes. The 'thunk' is unnerving. And its detrimental to things stored in a caravan.

[wfdTamar]

No, but I don't call the rear ones parkers. I call the front ones parking lights, the rear ones tail lights. Must just be one of those quirky differences between states. Like what you call what you wear swimming.

[Mysticality]

What, swimmers? XD

Or budgie smugglers? -shudder-

[wfdTamar]

Here's a neat towbar install. Westfalia bar on Octavia. Removable neck and flip down socket. Barely visible when not being used.
6 photo's:

Tow bar neck | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[brad]

Looks good - very stealth.

I was considering a similar install untill I found out that you needed a special adaptor to fit a bike rack - so I figure I'm stuck with a best-bars style unit

[wfdTamar]

They have another type of neck that has a removable ball, held on with two bolts (flange type). You can put a bike rack on the two bolts, but it might be one of those standards peculiar to Europe (pricy).

Like this

Skoda Octavia Estate 2004 on Detachable Flange towbar


Good explanation of the different types here:

Tow bar types explained Swan neck towbars Flange Towbars Detach Towbars

[brad]

Thanks for the info

I've bought a towball mount 4 bike track-type bike carrier (courier delivered it at work on Friday after i left). I'll try it out on the wife's Outback first & work out what I need for the Octavia after that.

job1) Make it work on the Outback
job 2) make it modular so I can have it as 2 bikes or 4
job 3) buy/fit suitable towbar for the Octavia

[wfdTamar]

I think I gave a link to this page with wiring diagrams for 7 and 12 pin sockets, but they have the sodding pin numbers the wrong way around!

Wiring Diagrams - Products - Narva


The correct way is here:

Trailer Wiring Diagrams @ ExplorOz Articles


I pointed out the mistake to Narva and they said it's been there since 2008 and that's the first anyone has noticed (they haven't changed it yet though).

[wfdTamar]

Ok, for the record - the 13 pin electrics kit I got from pfjones.co.uk £195 seems to work fine and is simpler to code than the genuine one. All you do is go into the Canbus gateway installation list and tick 69 trailer.

All up it cost pretty close to $900 for a tow bar very similar to a Skoda one except the electrics swing up when not in use. So there is almost nothing exposed. The only slight drawback is the loop for attaching the safety chain is quite high up but I just put a shackle on that hangs down and it's ok. I might cut the trim a bit more just to make access to that a bit easier. Made by Westfalia (who make the Skoda ones).